What is the Slip Rule? |
What is the Slip Rule? |
Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 12:49
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 125 Joined: 30 Jun 2020 From: Ealing Member No.: 109,009 |
Can anyone show me the practice directions allowing the court to change the name of a defendant on a summons?
I've read PD40B but that seems to be county court. |
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Tue, 7 Jul 2020 - 12:49
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Fri, 24 Jul 2020 - 21:49
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#41
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Member Group: Members Posts: 125 Joined: 30 Jun 2020 From: Ealing Member No.: 109,009 |
You said:
QUOTE That legislation doesn’t say it voids the summons, you have a severe comprehension problem This is what the legislation says: Proceedings invalid where accused did not know of them. (1)Where a summons has been issued under section 1 above and a magistrates’ court has begun to try the information to which the summons relates, then, if— (a)the accused, at any time during or after the trial, makes a statutory declaration that he did not know of the summons or the proceedings until a date specified in the declaration, being a date after the court has begun to try the information; and (b)within 21 days of that date the declaration is served on the [F1designated officer for the court],without prejudice to the validity of the information, the summons and all subsequent proceedings shall be void. I comprehend that to mean the SD is given, the summons and all subsequent proceedings shall be void. You say I have a severe comprehension problem. Can you explain what this legislation means to you? |
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Sat, 25 Jul 2020 - 08:06
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#42
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
THAT summons would be voided, but there is nothing to stop them re-issuing and re-trying, so the proceeding commenced are not voided and can be retried.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sat, 25 Jul 2020 - 15:37
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#43
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
(1)Where a summons has been issued under section 1 above and a magistrates’ court has begun to try the information to which the summons relates, then, if— There would be no summons as the police would have issued a postal requisition. As has been stated, the fact that the trial and conviction are void does not invalidate the whole process, it simply means the case will start again from scratch. Is there any defence available or is she going to plead guilty? -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 13:13
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#44
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Member Group: Members Posts: 125 Joined: 30 Jun 2020 From: Ealing Member No.: 109,009 |
That's how I understand it.
If she is required to enter a plea to the speeding, then it's guilty as charged. |
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Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 14:36
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#45
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,611 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
If she is required to enter a plea to the speeding, then it's guilty as charged. She might be asked to. However, if she never returned the s 172 notice it’s likely she’ll be asked to plea to that offence as well, or instead. What’s she going to do then? -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 22:45
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#46
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Member Group: Members Posts: 125 Joined: 30 Jun 2020 From: Ealing Member No.: 109,009 |
If she is required to enter a plea to the speeding, then it's guilty as charged. She might be asked to. However, if she never returned the s 172 notice it’s likely she’ll be asked to plea to that offence as well, or instead. What’s she going to do then? She will enter a plea of not guilty. The prosecution must show proper service of the document, and when evidence to the contrary is shown, that exposes, in a public trial, a member of court staff tampering with court documents. This is why I needed to know if a slip rule existed. |
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Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 23:11
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#47
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,611 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
The prosecution must show proper service of the document, and when evidence to the contrary is shown, that exposes, in a public trial, a member of court staff tampering with court documents. Remind me, was the s 172 notice properly served on her or not? Is she relying on the prosecutor giving two hoots about what might or might not have happened with paperwork in the previous matter? That doesn’t sound like a good idea particularly if there’s no evidence that anyone actually did anything wrong, let alone criminal. And in any case, how would the prosecutor know? -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Mon, 27 Jul 2020 - 01:18
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#48
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Member Group: Members Posts: 125 Joined: 30 Jun 2020 From: Ealing Member No.: 109,009 |
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Mon, 27 Jul 2020 - 08:40
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#49
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
The prosecution must show proper service of the document, and when evidence to the contrary is shown, that exposes, in a public trial, a member of court staff tampering with court documents. No it really doesn't, it shows that someone made a spelling mistake and someone else corrected it. Nobody will care and the trial will move forwards. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 27 Jul 2020 - 10:14
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#50
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,611 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Remind me, was the s 172 notice properly served on her or not? It wasn't In what way was it not served? If I remember correctly, it was received with a minor spelling error and returned incomplete as “not at this address” or similar, wasn’t it? At the moment her defence (based, presumably on your advice) is that (i) the s 172 notice was no correctly served and (ii) the prosecution won’t want to continue because it will uncover some sort of wrongdoing by some unspecified person in the court. As to (i), I think she’s on thin ice - she’ll be relying on the court finding that the transposition of a single letter (based on the scant details we’ve had) invalidates service on her. As to (ii), I think this is somewhat far-fetched, in fact and law. It relies on the prosecutor actually spotting the [supposed] issue and, even if they do, actually thinking there is an issue that needs the prosecution being discontinued. Based on what you have said, I would not be discontinuing the prosecution if it was me. A note of caution for your friend - if she doesn’t know what she’s doing then she ought to seek advice from those who do. I am not sure that you do. I get the impression that you’re seeking validation of your own point of view rather than advice. If that is the case then you’re doing your friend a disservice. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Mon, 27 Jul 2020 - 10:16
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#51
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I get the impression that you’re seeking validation of your own point of view rather than advice. If that is the case then you’re doing your friend a disservice. +1 -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 27 Jul 2020 - 10:30
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#52
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
+2...
Including a very likely perjurious SD. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 27 Jul 2020 - 16:33
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#53
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Member Group: Members Posts: 125 Joined: 30 Jun 2020 From: Ealing Member No.: 109,009 |
The purpose of this enquiry is finding a slip rule, which there is none, and nobody has heard any more since the SD. I call that a win, and the matter parked.
Any debate beyond that, for now, is academic. |
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Mon, 27 Jul 2020 - 18:48
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#54
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
The purpose of this enquiry is finding a slip rule... So basically you were looking for the answer to a question that doesn't matter anyway, hence the entire thread was academic from the start. On the downside, you might have opened up your friend to criminal liability for a false SD, on top of the original offence. Call that a win if you want... -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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