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Willen Lake, Napier Parking, 'Fixed Charge Notice', what to do?
Magandang_Buhay
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 18:12
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Hello,

Following a visit to Willen Lake and not displaying a ticket, I've received this:



I'm just looking for advice how to proceed, please. Is there anything particular I should include in an initial appeal?
Thanks!
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post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 18:12
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Jlc
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 18:43
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QUOTE (markweatherill @ Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 19:12) *
I'm just looking for advice how to proceed, please. Is there anything particular I should include in an initial appeal?

It's hard to say without telling us what happened...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 19:17
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MSE forum, newbie thread, ias appeal.

However Napier are different to most. Have a look there fir other threads on Napier.
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cabbyman
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 19:19
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'Failure to clearly display a valid ticket/permit.'

Dear sirs,

ref xxxxx

I have received your above NtK and respond as the registered keeper.

The notice woefully fails to comply with the provisions of Sched 4 of POoFA 2012 and, I understand from the driver and photographs, that the signage is not sufficient to convey a contract.

Given your consequent inability to hold me liable as keeper, I require you to cancel this charge forthwith. Alternatively, I invite you to afford me access to alternative dispute resolution through a competent agency in accordance with The Alternative Dispute Resolution for Consumer Disputes (Competent Authorities and Information) Regulations 2015. I would suggest for this purpose The Ombudsman Service or POPLA. As you are well aware, the Independent Appeals Service is no such thing and does not meet the requirements of the regulations. It is, therefore, not suitable to deal with this case.

In the absence of either of the above, I require you to cease processing my date immediately. Failure to do so may result in action being taken, including, but not limited to, a claim for improper use of my personal data.

Love and kisses.


See what others say.


--------------------
Cabbyman 8 PPCs 0
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 19:23
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Does it miss pofa? Thiught it got close enough above.
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cabbyman
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 20:08
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Apart from admitting that I got that bit wrong, can I squirm a little and say that we don't know all the relevant dates????? wink.gif

Leave out my comment about PoFA.


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Cabbyman 8 PPCs 0
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SchoolRunMum
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 22:07
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Depends whether the PCN arrived by day 14 or not, but the wording itself looks compliant.

Luckily, Napppier use BW Legal to try any small claims we've seen recently (not many) and they are useless.

Why no PDT displayed?
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Magandang_Buhay
post Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 05:05
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Thanks for the replies, I will draft an appeal to Napier along the lines of cabbyman's suggestion, leaving out the POFA parts.

The letter arrived with me within 14 days.

(EDITED)

This post has been edited by Magandang_Buhay: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 - 11:44
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 07:01
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So how long was the car "parked", and what were the objections by the driver / occupants?
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Magandang_Buhay
post Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 13:45
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 08:01) *
So how long was the car "parked", and what were the objections by the driver / occupants?


The letter gives an 'observed between' period of about ten minutes.
(EDITED)

I hope I do have a leg to stand on. mellow.gif

This post has been edited by Magandang_Buhay: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 - 11:45
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Jlc
post Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 15:15
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On private land the BB has no statutory meaning for parking.

A lot will hinge on what actually happened - if the car was 'parked and left' then it could well be argued the contract was formed. It is quite likely you were 'watched'.

However, if the driver was seeking to study/reject the contract on offer then that could be a good defence. It's possible that the time to do so could be longer if a person with protected characteristics was present.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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SchoolRunMum
post Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 19:53
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Anyone with a strong dislike of PPCs should avoid certain PPCs in car parks, Napppier being one, VCS and Excel and UKCPS being a few others.
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Magandang_Buhay
post Wed, 13 Sep 2017 - 09:18
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Thanks; now, how could I best contact a forum moderator please?
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Jlc
post Wed, 13 Sep 2017 - 09:29
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QUOTE (markweatherill @ Wed, 13 Sep 2017 - 10:18) *
Thanks; now, how could I best contact a forum moderator please?

Hit the '! Report' button.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Magandang_Buhay
post Wed, 13 Sep 2017 - 09:53
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 13 Sep 2017 - 10:29) *
QUOTE (markweatherill @ Wed, 13 Sep 2017 - 10:18) *
Thanks; now, how could I best contact a forum moderator please?

Hit the '! Report' button.


It isn't for 'objectionable' reasons; is that still OK?
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 13 Sep 2017 - 10:23
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Yes, we would not say otherwise.
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Magandang_Buhay
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 11:24
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Just for completeness and a warning, I'll conclude this tale.

Soon after starting this thread, I thought I'd better change my forum display name, from my real name to something less identifiable.
I then entered into a short correspondence with Napier, along the lines that I thought my displaying a Blue Badge made it unnecessary to pay for parking there. This was my genuine belief at the time, albeit I was being a bit disingenuous.

Napier replied with a screenshot of this thread, from a time before I contacted them, and before I even changed the display name, stating that my real reason for not paying was something else, and photos of my car's interior from every possible angle for good measure. All on nice notepaper.

My mistake was in thinking that Napier was a BPA member and therefore wouldn't issue a demand to a BB holder. Well, that doesn't apply to them any more.
And as I seemed to have got their attention, I thought I'd just pay up.


So, sorry if this is already common knowledge, but in case it helps anyone, my warning is this:
In my case Napier had already located this thread very quickly. I therefore assume they proactively scour this (and other) forums for mention of their name, not as a reaction to appeals or correspondence, but in advance of any such and 'in case'.
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Jlc
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 11:45
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I hope you paid the discounted charge... rolleyes.gif

We have seen others make assumptions for BB's - on private land there are rarely any concessions.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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SchoolRunMum
post Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 15:03
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Thanks for the update. A fair warning for people not to post incriminating stuff on public forums.

We do know Napier look at this forum and so do others with similar greedy agendas.

The good thing would have been they use BW Legal and because of that, Napier don't field the robust claims they used to.

Hope they are happy driving people away from the sites they infest.
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