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Private parking ticket Chester
Biggiefunk
post Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 18:32
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Hi,

Can anyone offer some assistance on this parking ticket for this driver.

The street view of the location and the ticket that has been left. The location is a road off a Main Street going through a neighbourhood in Chester. It's used as a thoroughfare for the public to get to Chester on foot.

The ticket doesn't seem a proper parking ticket.

Chester races were on at the time and was informed there was a red sign at the top of the road saying road closed access to residents only. Later that evening the red sign had disappeared!!

The driver said there has never been any signs and the street view shows no signs. Please can somebody help with some advice to fight this. The driver hasn't received anything in the post yet.

Thanks in advance!!

https://www.instantstreetview.com/@53.18215...h,-27.89p,1.27z

https://flic.kr/p/YobBdv

https://flic.kr/p/YobB6B

https://flic.kr/p/YaL2mD

This post has been edited by Biggiefunk: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 20:01
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post Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 18:32
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cabbyman
post Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 18:38
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EDIT your post so you don't divulge the driver's identity. Refer only to 'the driver.' This is crucial.

This is a recent new tactic by VCS to issue a notice to driver which isn't a notice to driver.


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Cabbyman 8 PPCs 0
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TheMisterMan
post Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 19:09
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As cabbyman says edit your post so as not to reveal the driver.

E.g. "The driver parked the car". Never reveal the identity of the driver unless asked to do so by a judge.
There is no legal requirement for you to name the driver.

I would then suggest contacting the highways department of the council to get confirmation that this is a public road (i.e. maintained at the public's expense).
In the street view there is a sign at the end of the road (opposite end to the bridge) that states it is a private road.

Also, keep the notice that was left on the vehicle.
Do nothing until you receive a letter from the parking company, except to search for evidence that will help your defence.
When you get a Notice to Keeper letter post it here with your details redacted.

I am assuming that you are the registered keeper of the vehicle?

This post has been edited by TheMisterMan: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 19:45
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TheMisterMan
post Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 19:49
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I would appear that it is a private road.


This post has been edited by TheMisterMan: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 19:51
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Biggiefunk
post Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 19:57
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QUOTE (TheMisterMan @ Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 20:49) *
I would appear that it is a private road.


Not sure if this sign is still there will confirm, does this change things?
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TheMisterMan
post Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 20:05
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QUOTE (Biggiefunk @ Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 20:57) *
Not sure if this sign is still there will confirm, does this change things?


A parking company can operate on private land with the land owners consent. However, they cannot operate on public land. Your defence against the charge will be different depending on the status of the land. Either way, you can defend the charge.
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 20:06
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That's one of the 'not a parking charge' fake ones that have swerved past the DVLA as if that's all OK.

Excel or VCS will send a NTK, but there is no appeal worth bothering to try. The BMPA advice is to ignore it until a LBCCC or court papers might arrive. Don't pay it.

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 - 20:15
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TheMisterMan
post Wed, 6 Sep 2017 - 07:25
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Thank you for your email.



Dingle Bank at Curzon Park is NOT highway maintained at public expense.



You can find out free of charge if any road in Cheshire West is adopted or not by visiting our website gazetteer:



http://online.cheshirewestandchester.gov.u...azetteerOnline/



We do not keep records of ownership of land other than that owned by ourselves.



Regards





Adopted Highways



Asset Management

Cheshire West and Chester Council

Highways Depot

Guilden Sutton La

Guilden Sutton

Chester CH3 7EX

Email adoptedhighways@cheshirewestandchester.gov.uk
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Biggiefunk
post Wed, 6 Sep 2017 - 19:40
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QUOTE (TheMisterMan @ Wed, 6 Sep 2017 - 08:25) *
Thank you for your email.



Dingle Bank at Curzon Park is NOT highway maintained at public expense.



You can find out free of charge if any road in Cheshire West is adopted or not by visiting our website gazetteer:



http://online.cheshirewestandchester.gov.u...azetteerOnline/





We do not keep records of ownership of land other than that owned by ourselves.



Regards





Adopted Highways



Asset Management

Cheshire West and Chester Council

Highways Depot

Guilden Sutton La

Guilden Sutton

Chester CH3 7EX

Email adoptedhighways@cheshirewestandchester.gov.uk


Thanks mister man, so I guess this just alters my appeal should a charge materialise?
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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 6 Sep 2017 - 20:17
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It just alters your defence (not appeal) should a court claim materialise.

You still have a case, everyone does.

Forum defences for posters who stick around and are coached through all stages: WS, evidence stage, and pre-hearing preparation tips, almost always succeed.
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Biggiefunk
post Wed, 13 Sep 2017 - 17:02
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https://flic.kr/p/YpdZPy

https://flic.kr/p/Xs4cGD

What's the next steps?

Thanks
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 13 Sep 2017 - 19:10
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Appealing to establish you are being reasonable, and ensuring you know how their NtK fails pofa. Check schedule 4 para 8

There is no step after that - you'll get rejected and then have to sit out debt collector letters. You come back if you get a letter before claim or a claim form.
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Biggiefunk
post Thu, 14 Sep 2017 - 16:59
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So you advice is don't appeal as will be rejected. Dont pay and just await a court summons or debt collector letters?

Is there no point in appealing then?
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kommando
post Thu, 14 Sep 2017 - 17:09
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QUOTE
So you advice is don't appeal as will be rejected.


No, the advise is correct, appeal to the PPC on the grounds there is no Keeper liability because they do not meet Sched 4 para 8, it gets rejected but you then stick it out until a claim appears, you do not appeal to the IPC ie no second appeal.


QUOTE
Appealing to establish you are being reasonable, and ensuring you know how their NtK fails pofa. Check schedule 4 para 8

There is no step after that - you'll get rejected and then have to sit out debt collector letters.
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Biggiefunk
post Thu, 14 Sep 2017 - 18:44
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QUOTE (kommando @ Thu, 14 Sep 2017 - 18:09) *
QUOTE
So you advice is don't appeal as will be rejected.


No, the advise is correct, appeal to the PPC on the grounds there is no Keeper liability because they do not meet Sched 4 para 8, it gets rejected but you then stick it out until a claim appears, you do not appeal to the IPC ie no second appeal.


QUOTE
Appealing to establish you are being reasonable, and ensuring you know how their NtK fails pofa. Check schedule 4 para 8

There is no step after that - you'll get rejected and then have to sit out debt collector letters.



Ok so is the appeal as brief as this?

I would like appeal this parking charge on the basis that there is no keeper liability as you are not meeting schedule 4 paragraph 8.

When you say stick out debt collector letters, no-one is going to turn up on my doorstep are they?

A claim will appear and then I return to here?
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 14 Sep 2017 - 22:40
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NOthing has changed from the advice we already gave:

QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 21:06) *
That's one of the 'not a parking charge' fake ones that have swerved past the DVLA as if that's all OK.

Excel or VCS will send a NTK, but there is no appeal worth bothering to try. The BMPA advice is to ignore it until a LBCCC or court papers might arrive. Don't pay it.




QUOTE
When you say stick out debt collector letters, no-one is going to turn up on my doorstep are they?


http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5035663

Sorry for the brief reply link to that question. The reason is, I am surprised I can ever type another word about this laughable yet boring stage we've all ignored ourselves. I wrote that linked thread, and you might be able to tell from my tone in it, the subject of boring debt letters has been done to death on parking forums & is dead easy to Google.

We are here to help people at the important (appeal or defence) stages re private PCNs, not to talk about ignoring debt collector letter chains again.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 15 Sep 2017 - 13:02
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When I said appeal, why did you then state you shouldn't appeal?
The mind boggles.

No, LETTERS means that. They hsve no powers. Turning up costs actual money, so they dint do that.

Seriously read the damned advice before panicking. Our bored tone should be a clue that this is been there, done that, nothing to worry about territory.
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Biggiefunk
post Thu, 21 Sep 2017 - 18:29
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So I appealed using the template provided by SchoolRunMom from the link and have received a response, rejecting my appeal as nosferatu1001 alluded to.

https://flic.kr/p/XGB8FK

https://flic.kr/p/XD5YCo

Do I now await a claim? how long does this take?

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cabbyman
post Thu, 21 Sep 2017 - 18:56
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They have six years to raise a court claim, as mentioned in the MSE link you read.


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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 22 Sep 2017 - 07:53
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They have up to 6 years to try it, as you know from the thread you read. We have no idea IF they will ever choose to do this, and when that might be

Keep any letters filed sagfely for 6 years. Throw nothing away. If you move, tell the parking company you have moved.
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