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Parking charge for parking outside my company office, Private parking company looks after the parking spaces
TootWill
post Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 13:19
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Hello, the great people of reddit recommend i speak to you guys about this one..

The driver unfortunately been giving a parking fine by a private parking company (UKPC). The charge was given to the driver at one of his company offices. The driver doesn't have a permanent parking permit at this office so he has to go in and collect a visitor one once I'm parked, I've done this countless times without issue.
This time however by the time the driver got the visitors permit the parking warden had slapped a fine on the drivers car.
The driver contested it and they rejected my appeal however did reduce my fine down to £15 instead of £60. Obviously the driver still wasn't happy about paying anything so I appealed to Popla thinking they would see sense. They didn't. Now the fine has gone up to £100....
That are you thoughts on going to court? And the likely hood of winning?
Thanks!

Note that the the driver's company can't do anything about this as its we rent the building, the landlords aren't being helpful saying they can't do anything about it.

This post has been edited by TootWill: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 16:52
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post Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 13:19
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TheMisterMan
post Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 14:26
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I think it would be helpful if you could post all correspondence to date that you have had with the parking company and the popla appeal.
Make sure to redact personal information and any PCN reference numbers etc.

In the mean time I would edit your post to remove any indication of who the driver was.
The driver should be THE DRIVER, e.g. "the driver parked...".

How long was the car parked before a notice was placed on it?
I believe the code of conduct for parking companies gives a 10 minute grace period.
The idea is that this gives you time to read the signs and either accept or reject the Ts and Cs.

It would also be useful if you could provide photographs of the signs at the car park.

It would also be useful if you could find out exactly who the land owner is for the spot in which the car was parked.
The car park may be split and have more than one land owner.

The land registry website will be useful for determining if there could be more than one land owner. However, to access exact maps there is a small fee of a few quid.



At this stage either you pay, or you wait for them to issue a court claim - they have 6 years from the date of the initial notice.
Your likelihood of winning depends upon many things, including the items I've mentioned in this reply.

This post has been edited by TheMisterMan: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 14:41
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emergencychimp
post Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 14:36
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Dealt with the same thing with UKPC. Didn't word the appeal to POPLA correctly as you have done.

Ignored any further letters and they stopped. They do take people to court thought. 167 court hearings this year as of June out of 87534 tickets...

This post has been edited by emergencychimp: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 14:37
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TootWill
post Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 18:20
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QUOTE (TheMisterMan @ Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 15:26) *
I think it would be helpful if you could post all correspondence to date that you have had with the parking company and the popla appeal.
Make sure to redact personal information and any PCN reference numbers etc.

In the mean time I would edit your post to remove any indication of who the driver was.
The driver should be THE DRIVER, e.g. "the driver parked...".

How long was the car parked before a notice was placed on it?
I believe the code of conduct for parking companies gives a 10 minute grace period.
The idea is that this gives you time to read the signs and either accept or reject the Ts and Cs.

It would also be useful if you could provide photographs of the signs at the car park.

It would also be useful if you could find out exactly who the land owner is for the spot in which the car was parked.
The car park may be split and have more than one land owner.

The land registry website will be useful for determining if there could be more than one land owner. However, to access exact maps there is a small fee of a few quid.



At this stage either you pay, or you wait for them to issue a court claim - they have 6 years from the date of the initial notice.
Your likelihood of winning depends upon many things, including the items I've mentioned in this reply.


Hey, the driver left the car without a permit for approx 5-10 minutes before returning with a visitors permit. All the information from the appeal to the signage is on this downloadable link https://we.tl/wKe5T5IZO4

Thanks!
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cabbyman
post Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 18:44
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Not happy with agreeing to cookies on your link.

Please read the *READ THIS FIRST* sticky, use an external host such as image shack or tinypic and post the [img] links.


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Cabbyman 8 PPCs 0
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TheMisterMan
post Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 18:58
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I did download your pdf but I've not read through the contents of the correspondence.

However, the signs are prohibitive. I.e. There is no offer to provide parking. The problem they have is that any claim they make against you will be a remedy for your trespass. However, only the land owner can bring such a claim.

Edit:
I believe the parking company involved are a member of British Parking Association. Their code of practice involving grace periods has been attached. I believe it would be reasonable to assume that a ten minute grace period would be sufficient for you to read the sign, obtain a permit, and display it in your vehicle. Any time less than this and it couldn't be reasonably assumed that you had entered into a contract.

Have you appealed to POPLA yet?
Do you have anything that can substantiate your claim that it was only a few minutes that elapsed before the PCN was issued? CCTV?

This post has been edited by TheMisterMan: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 19:42
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TootWill
post Wed, 13 Sep 2017 - 10:00
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QUOTE (TheMisterMan @ Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 19:58) *
I did download your pdf but I've not read through the contents of the correspondence.

However, the signs are prohibitive. I.e. There is no offer to provide parking. The problem they have is that any claim they make against you will be a remedy for your trespass. However, only the land owner can bring such a claim.

Edit:
I believe the parking company involved are a member of British Parking Association. Their code of practice involving grace periods has been attached. I believe it would be reasonable to assume that a ten minute grace period would be sufficient for you to read the sign, obtain a permit, and display it in your vehicle. Any time less than this and it couldn't be reasonably assumed that you had entered into a contract.

Have you appealed to POPLA yet?
Do you have anything that can substantiate your claim that it was only a few minutes that elapsed before the PCN was issued? CCTV?


Hi, the driver applied to Popla and they didn't rule in the drivers favour. This is what they said

The operator has provided photographic evidence of the terms and conditions, as displayed at the site, which states “Failure to comply with the following at any time will result in a £100 parking charge (reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days) being issued to the vehicle’s driver; A valid parking permit must be clearly displayed at all times”. The operator has provided photographic evidence of the vehicle ****** at the site, on 13 June 2017. The operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) as the appellant parked in a permit area without displaying a valid permit. The appellant’s case is that they are allowed to park with their permit. The appellant states the operator had recently started to manage the car park and they were on holiday when the new permits had been issued. The appellant states when they returned from their holiday they went to collect their new permit. The appellant states by the time they returned to their vehicle a parking charge has been issued. The appellant states they explained their situation to the warden who advised the charge would be cancelled. The appellant has provided evidence of their permit. I acknowledge the appellant’s comments, however when looking at appeals, POPLA considers whether a parking contract was formed and, if so, whether the motorist kept to the conditions of the contract. POPLA cannot allow an appeal if a contract was formed and the motorist did not keep to the parking conditions. I am unable to comment on the communication the appellant had with the warden; this is because the contract undertaken at the site is between the operator and the motorist, not with staff working for third party organisations at the site. The responsibility is that of the motorist to ensure that the terms and conditions at the site have been understood and agreed prior to entering into a contract with the operator. From the operator’s photographic evidence of the appellant’s vehicle, I cannot see a permit displayed in the vehicle. In order for the warden to assess that the vehicle was authorised to park at the site, a permit would need to be clearly visible in the vehicle. As it was not, the warden has issued the PCN, as they would have been unaware whether the vehicle was authorised to park at the site. Section 13.2 of the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice states “You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go”. Based upon the evidence provided, I can see that the driver parked their vehicle on site without displaying a valid permit. As the signage informs motorists that a permit should be displayed at all times, I would expect the driver to display a permit and not leave the vehicle on site without a permit being clearly displayed. A grace period allows the appellant to enter a site and leave, or to enter a site read the terms and conditions and exit if they feel the terms and conditions could not be complied with. The driver left their vehicle without displaying a valid permit therefore, I am satisfied that a grace period does not apply. Ultimately, it is the motorist’s responsibility to comply with the terms and conditions of the car park. Upon consideration of the evidence, the appellant parked in a permit area without displaying a valid permit, and therefore did not comply with the terms and conditions of the car park. As such, I conclude that the PCN has been issued correctly. Accordingly, I must refuse this appeal.

This post has been edited by TootWill: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 - 10:01
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