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Pcn from total parking solutions
Spclexus
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 14:31
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A works car park is patrolled by total parking solutions. There is no charge for employee parking however a pass must be displayed. Tps has the required signs around the car park. A company employ tps to prevent members of public parking in the company car park.

A driver returning to their car today had a tps pcn on the wiper. Opened the car and the parking pass had fallen on floor out of sight probably as They closed door in the morning. So techinacally the drivers fault?

Driver can pay £40 in 2weeks or £70 thereafter or appeal.

Do They have any grounds for appeal? The company does not charge for parking so is not out of pocket and Driver does have a valid pass that today just didn't for whatever reason stay put.

The driver will be more careful in future. And regarding this will be grateful for any advice please. Theyve never had a ticket so have no idea wether to appeal or just pay?

asking for a mate
Thanks, steve

This post has been edited by Spclexus: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 19:11
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post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 14:31
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cabbyman
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 14:37
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EDIT your post to avoid identifying the driver. Refer only to 'the driver.'

TPS are BPA so you will should get access to POPLA in due course. Await the NtK, then basic appeal to TPS, which will be refused but should come with a POPLA code. Then the killer appeal to POPLA.

Have a read of other topics in the forum to learn how the system works. You will need to understand why certain advice is given.


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Spclexus
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 14:49
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 15:37) *
EDIT your post to avoid identifying the driver. Refer only to 'the driver.'

TPS are BPA so you will should get access to POPLA in due course. Await the NtK, then basic appeal to TPS, which will be refused but should come with a POPLA code. Then the killer appeal to POPLA.

Have a read of other topics in the forum to learn how the system works. You will need to understand why certain advice is given.


Thanks, lots to learn lol
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Spclexus
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 15:37
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Ok ntk (had to research that lol)
Will that come within the 14day period and if they dont sent it do i just appeal anyway? What extra information does the ntk give me?

Sorry noob questions blink.gif
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cabbyman
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 15:43
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What legislation governs the tickets? The answer is in just about every single thread! smile.gif


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Jlc
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 15:49
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Can your company assist? (Or at least reduce it to a nominal admin charge)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Spclexus
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 16:08
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 16:49) *
Can your company assist? (Or at least reduce it to a nominal admin charge)


Im going to ask tommorow, but unlikely . Annoying as their entitled to be there.



QUOTE (cabbyman @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 16:43) *
What legislation governs the tickets? The answer is in just about every single thread! smile.gif


I appriciate im asking simple questions but when you dont know the answers help is appriciated.
Its hard to the the forum search to ask specific questions as each thread is different. Ive looked through threads for advice on wether to appeal if i dont recieve the ntk within 14days or just appeal anyway and not finding an answer, i asked !
sorry sad.gif

This post has been edited by Spclexus: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 19:10
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Jlc
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 16:10
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QUOTE (Spclexus @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 17:08) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 16:49) *
Can your company assist? (Or at least reduce it to a nominal admin charge)


Im going to ask tommorow, but unlikely . Annoying as im entitled to be there.

TPS are one of the more reasonable PPC's but if your company holds the contract with them then they may have a right to cancel tickets (or at least for an admin charge).

QUOTE (Spclexus @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 17:08) *
QUOTE (cabbyman @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 16:43) *
What legislation governs the tickets? The answer is in just about every single thread! smile.gif


I appriciate im asking simple questions but when you dont know the answers help is appriciated.
Its hard to the the forum search to ask specific questions as each thread is different. Ive looked through threads for advice on wether to appeal if i dont recieve the ntk within 14days or just appeal anyway and not finding an answer, i asked !
sorry sad.gif

Private Parking is a contractual matter - there is limited legislation, namely the Protection of Freedoms Act which covers whether the keeper is liable for the driver's unpaid parking charge.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 16:09


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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cabbyman
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 16:12
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QUOTE (Spclexus @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 17:08) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 16:49) *
Can your company assist? (Or at least reduce it to a nominal admin charge)


Im going to ask tommorow, but unlikely . Annoying as im entitled to be there.



QUOTE (cabbyman @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 16:43) *
What legislation governs the tickets? The answer is in just about every single thread! smile.gif


I appriciate im asking simple questions but when you dont know the answers help is appriciated.
Its hard to the the forum search to ask specific questions as each thread is different. Ive looked through threads for advice on wether to appeal if i dont recieve the ntk within 14days or just appeal anyway and not finding an answer, i asked !
sorry sad.gif


OK, I'm not trying to be awkward; just to encourage you to research it so that you learn.

Have a look at PoFA Sched 4 then come back and tell me what happens in 14, 29 & 56 days.


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Spclexus
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 16:13
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 17:09) *
QUOTE (Spclexus @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 17:08) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 16:49) *
Can your company assist? (Or at least reduce it to a nominal admin charge)


Im going to ask tommorow, but unlikely . Annoying as im entitled to be there.

TPS are one of the more reasonable PPC's but if your company holds the contract with them then they may have a right to cancel tickets (or at least for an admin charge).


Ill speak to a boss in the morning and report back . If they help id be surpised !

This post has been edited by Spclexus: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 19:12
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cabbyman
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 16:16
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In parallel, DO NOT miss TPS's arbitrary deadlines. You don't want to give them the excuse not to offer you a POPLA code later on.


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Spclexus
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 16:38
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 17:12) *
QUOTE (Spclexus @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 17:08) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 16:49) *
Can your company assist? (Or at least reduce it to a nominal admin charge)


Im going to ask tommorow, but unlikely . Annoying as im entitled to be there.



QUOTE (cabbyman @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 16:43) *
What legislation governs the tickets? The answer is in just about every single thread! smile.gif


I appriciate im asking simple questions but when you dont know the answers help is appriciated.
Its hard to the the forum search to ask specific questions as each thread is different. Ive looked through threads for advice on wether to appeal if i dont recieve the ntk within 14days or just appeal anyway and not finding an answer, i asked !
sorry sad.gif


OK, I'm not trying to be awkward; just to encourage you to research it so that you learn.

Have a look at PoFA Sched 4 then come back and tell me what happens in 14, 29 & 56 days.


No worries, i do get where your coming from. Must be annoying people just wanting answers on a plate. I think this to a newbie is a big area with lots of laws n jargon to take in lol. Ill research your post and reply in a couple of hours. Easier on a tablet and my phones about to die lol. Thanks


QUOTE (cabbyman @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 17:16) *
In parallel, DO NOT miss TPS's arbitrary deadlines. You don't want to give them the excuse not to offer you a POPLA code later on.


Yeah i get that, ticket issued today so ihave to learn as much andquickly as possible in the next 7days
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Spclexus
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 18:20
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Cabbyman, ive read through sched 4 several times. Very ' legal/lawyer" talk but this is what i think i got out.

4/4 tps cannot claim against driver until 28 days have past.
9/4/5 the ntk must be recieved within 14days?

Didnt really get what happens after 28/59 days or any ref to 59

Is ntk must be recieved to keeper or sent im guessing recieved or else youd be beyond 14days.

Does the notice to keeper give more information than the pcn the driver has today? Or is it just to check information correct before appeal. Does the popla code come on this or later? Think i read you have to follow the tps appeal through before popla?.

Hard to learn when your not conversant with all the legal speak.
Just want to find the best way route to take to try and get a decent outcome.



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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 21:11
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There are two para
8 is when a tickets put on the vehicle - a notice to driver
9 is when there isn't a notice to driver

For 8, they cannot issue a ticket to the keeper until 28 days have passed, and before 56 have passed
For 9 it must be received within 14.
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Spclexus
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 21:22
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 22:11) *
There are two para
8 is when a tickets put on the vehicle - a notice to driver
9 is when there isn't a notice to driver

For 8, they cannot issue a ticket to the keeper until 28 days have passed, and before 56 have passed
For 9 it must be received within 14.


Thankyou, theirs is 8 then. So if the conversation withtheir boss is not helpful tomorrow their best course of action is to appeal in the 14days. Which holds the charge to £40 until they give a decision. When they decline am i right in thinking they have to give the driver a popla code then? Also when it goes to popla does the result of that stay at 40 or can they then charge the full 70?.

On another thought earlier in the year we had to give our registrations to the company. Should tps not check to see if the car their ticketing is an employee who has the right to park, £40 is excessive for not displaying a pass when there is no financial loss to the employer.

Getting there slowly lol
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 21:32
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No, that isn't what you do
You appeal at day 25/26 online, and they then usually forget to,issue a NtK. Without a NtK being received within the deadline, keeper liability is not possible. The rejection contains a popla code, younappeal at the end of the 28 day popla period and win on no keeper liability

Forget the discount amount. You're most likely paying £0.

Seriously stop talking no financial loss. Supreme Court spdecided two years ago this was irrelevant. Nuts isn't it! And yes they should check their white list. But then thy don't make money. They only make money from actual authorised parkers who fall foul of their stupid irrelevant rules.
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Spclexus
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 21:48
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 22:32) *
No, that isn't what you do
You appeal at day 25/26 online, and they then usually forget to,issue a NtK. Without a NtK being received within the deadline, keeper liability is not possible. The rejection contains a popla code, younappeal at the end of the 28 day popla period and win on no keeper liability

Forget the discount amount. You're most likely paying £0.

Seriously stop talking no financial loss. Supreme Court spdecided two years ago this was irrelevant. Nuts isn't it! And yes they should check their white list. But then thy don't make money. They only make money from actual authorised parkers who fall foul of their stupid irrelevant rules.


Ok, ill recommend this to the driver. Thanks.
When you say " rejection contains a popla code" is this something they send the driver? After 25day appeal?
And applying to popla gives another 28days then ?

Ha, confusing working out the chain of events



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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 22:28
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NO

That is obviously advice for the keeper. Because the driver never ever appeals. Only the keeper. Specifically appealing as the keeper. Use the MSE forum newbies thread appeal for BPA ata members.

Repeat this: the driver is never ever ever named or implied or hinted at. Ever. Anywhere.

The operators appeal rejection will contain a popla code. Obviously the keeper gives some way for the operator to contact them otherwise it's pretty useless to appeal at all. If using an online form save a copy of any appeal confirmations you get somewhere sensible.

The popla code is valid for 28 days. Before appeal must be written , shown here and checked , before it is submitted as a PDF using the "other" option on the popla website. As the newbies thread tells you to.
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Spclexus
post Thu, 31 Aug 2017 - 14:43
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 23:28) *
NO

That is obviously advice for the keeper. Because the driver never ever appeals. Only the keeper. Specifically appealing as the keeper. Use the MSE forum newbies thread appeal for BPA ata members.

Repeat this: the driver is never ever ever named or implied or hinted at. Ever. Anywhere.

The operators appeal rejection will contain a popla code. Obviously the keeper gives some way for the operator to contact them otherwise it's pretty useless to appeal at all. If using an online form save a copy of any appeal confirmations you get somewhere sensible.

The popla code is valid for 28 days. Before appeal must be written , shown here and checked , before it is submitted as a PDF using the "other" option on the popla website. As the newbies thread tells you to.


Well the conversation with the company was brisk. Not really interested in looking after their 22yr service employees. Hmmm.


Yes yes, i get its advice for the keeper biggrin.gif . I now get it. Mse newbies forum found and read. Understand how this will proceed and my next post will be in about 25 days confirming the appeal to tps by the keeper. Will update as n when.

Many thanks for the advice on the forum and will prob need more before its done. Fully intend to make a donation as there is so much information here. Just a little hard to understand all the legal technical stuff with no previous knowledge biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Spclexus: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 19:14
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Spclexus
post Fri, 8 Sep 2017 - 18:16
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I have a question, im researching threads here and mse everyday trying to learn the processes. Some things just dont reveal themselves.

When the RK appeals on day 25/6 using the online companies online form do you just say appealing as Rk and not liable or list reasons why?
At this point does the Rk have to list all points for appeal or can more be added later for the expected popla appeal? Or will popla not allow extra reasons based on tps not being able to refute them earlier?

Tia
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