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Company Car and NTK
IsThisFor Real?
post Tue, 15 Aug 2017 - 19:54
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Hi All

have tried my best to research on the forum but not really sure of the next moves to take.

My sister drives a company car she parked in a car park that can only be described as having very poor signage and with plenty of advertising banners effectively diminishing their effect.

The PCN (£90 reduced to £54 if paid within 28 days) has been issued by PCS acting on behalf of WY parking enforcement their client and the creditor. This has been sent to the Company she works for care of the lease company.

The PCN was "issued" on 9/8 and received on the 14/8 following the alleged incident on the 7/8 no ticket was placed on the car and was issued following the use of a warden operated camera system. No photographic evidence has been supplied at this stage.

Reason: parking in a permit only area without clearly displaying a valid permit

As I understand the Company (registered Keeper) has not passed on details of the driver.

I have helped other friends and family to successfully appeal these invoices but a little unsure on this one.

thanks for your help
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post Tue, 15 Aug 2017 - 19:54
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SchoolRunMum
post Tue, 15 Aug 2017 - 20:40
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QUOTE
This has been sent to the Company she works for care of the lease company.


Would the company let her submit the appeal, on their behalf? On MSE, there is a version of appeal especially for lease/hire cars, written by Edna Basher (who posts here as Dennis Basher) and it's near the end of post #1 of the NEWBIES FAQS thread:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822

If not, get the company to name her, specifically as the LESSEE/HIRER (NOT NOT NOT commenting as to who might have been driving, so make sure they know NOT to say 'the driver is/was...') and all they do is give her name and address as named 'lessee/hirer' to transfer liability to her, then she waits for her own PCN to arrive, then sends the NEWBIES thread appeal.

http://wyparkingenforcement.co.uk/

BPA member so get it to POPLA and she will win; I'd bet their NTK is not POFA compliant.
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Dennis Basher
post Tue, 15 Aug 2017 - 22:20
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With an alleged incident date of 7/8/17 and an issue date just two days later on 9/8/17 this looks like a Notice to (Registered) Keeper rather than a Notice to Hirer. Are you sure your sister's employer leases the car rather than owning it outright? Or if it is leased, could it be registered with the DVLA in her employer's name rather than that of the lease company?

Edit - Or was the PCN addressed to the lease company who have then passed a copy on to your employer?

As SRM points out, the ideal solution would be for your sister's employer to either a) dispute the PCN themselves or b) allow her to dispute it on their behalf as a "fleet manager".

This post has been edited by Dennis Basher: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 - 23:01
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ostell
post Wed, 16 Aug 2017 - 06:43
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This sounds like the lease company have forwarded a copy of what they received. Check what it says in the address field of the PCN. If the name there is the lease company then that is what has happened. The company should wait for a keeper/hirer notice in their own name before proceeding.

When that NTK/NTH arrives it should have additional paperwork included with it, like copies of portions of the lease agreement. Even PE fail on this one. If it does not then the company writes back to tell them that they have failed to comply with section 14 of POFA to be able to hold them liable and they will not be naming the driver as there is no legal requirement to do so. As a body corporate they cannot possibly be the driver and do not expect to hear from them again expcept to confirm the matter is closed.
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IsThisFor Real?
post Wed, 13 Sep 2017 - 17:51
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Thanks for the replies My sister has been on holiday so have sort of left this drift.

She rang the number on the PCN without giving her name, they asked if she wanted to pay the now £90 charge she explained she had been on holiday so they kindly offered to accept £54 which she declined and indicated that she would appeal. I'm guessing she now may be out of time although we have a date stamp on the PCN as being received on the 14th August.

Her fleet manager (He works for her company not the fleet management company) is happy to deal with this in the most appropriate way and not to forward her details.

The PCN states

We are writing on behalf of a creditor in relation to a parking charge. Your details have been received from the DVLA under "reasonable cause request" as you were the registered keeper of the vehicle specified at the time of the parking incident shown, or you have been nominated as the hirer/driver of the vehicle by the registered keeper.

Sent to

Company ABC (who my sister works for)
C/O Fleet Management Company

They have not sent any further communications at this point. He is just looking for the appropriate response to send should they contact him directly


Many thanks
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Jlc
post Wed, 13 Sep 2017 - 18:09
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QUOTE (IsThisFor Real? @ Wed, 13 Sep 2017 - 18:51) *
...she would appeal.

They will reject any appeal anyway.

They are a little bit litigious so start collecting any evidence as it stands.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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IsThisFor Real?
post Wed, 13 Sep 2017 - 19:39
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got photos of signs which probably don't meet BPA guidelines but other than that not much..they didn't send any documentation with the PCN so maybe quote POFA and not disclose hirer/driver?

This post has been edited by IsThisFor Real?: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 - 19:40
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IsThisFor Real?
post Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 16:54
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Ok so now the company has received a letter from a debt collector asking for £149.00 again it is addressed to

Company ABC
C/o Lease company

It says in the letter that the person who is liable for the parking charge is the driver when it was issued, in certain circumstances liability can transferred to the RK..

Would it be appropriate to write back?

was thinking something along the lines of

We do not accept the debt.

You're client has failed to comply with section 14 of POFA and we therefore are under to legal obligation to name the driver.

pretty much as Ostell has mentioned.

who should we write to? the Parking Company, The agent or the debt collector ? or all 3?

thanks in advance
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cabbyman
post Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 18:26
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In order to hold the keeper liable, they MUST include a copy of the hire agreement with the PCN.

Ignore the debt collector. Write to the PPC as you have outlined. Who is the agent to which you refer???

I'm not sure if a company can claim under DPA legislation; probably not but, if others have different ideas, it would be good to fire a shot across their bows in some way.



--------------------
Cabbyman 8 PPCs 0
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 19 Sep 2017 - 06:55
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"You're client has failed to comply with section 14 of POFA and we therefore are under to legal obligation to name the driver."

There is never a requirement in POFA to name the Driver. I never understand why this line keeps appearing, its complete nonsense.

IF they have met POFA they can hold the Keeper (presumed to be the RK) liable. Thats it. If they dont meet it, thgey can only hold the drier liable. thats it. IF they met it, then naming the driver before PROCEEDINGS commence i..e before a claim form issued, there is no liability for the keeper.
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