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Parking ticket from PCM and now court threat from Gladstone
RM_2007
post Sun, 26 Mar 2017 - 22:35
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Hi Guys,

Need some advice.

Back in November 2016 PCM sent a NTK to me as they claim my car was "parked within a restricted area". The area in concern is within a private estate. Image attached. I believe that the driver at the time had just stopped to pick something up and was only away a few minutes.

I ignored their demands - I appreciate that may not have been the best course of action (I need to get up to speed with the latest advice on best action to take when you get these NTK's).



I have now received a letter dated 10th March from Gladstone solicitors and wanted to check if this is a letter before county court action? and what to do if this is/isnt a letter before county court action.



Your advice as always is greatly appreciated.
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post Sun, 26 Mar 2017 - 22:35
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emanresu
post Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 05:52
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You're likely to get a claim form in the next two weeks - they like to do it over holiday periods to catch people out. If you are not on holiday, then Acknowledge and send in a defence. Get close-up pics of the signs and their layout using Google Street View. Concentrate on the issue that the driver (who you do not need to name) could not have entered into a contract in such a short space of time.

This post has been edited by emanresu: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 05:53


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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ostell
post Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 07:16
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Was the driver visiting a resident of the estate by invitation.?
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SchoolRunMum
post Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 12:45
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Do answer the question about the driver's authorisation to be parked (resident? visitor?).

And don't panic - we almost never see a Gladstones claim lost by posters here or on MSE forum, as long as you read other Gladstones claims and defend similarly.
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RM_2007
post Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 17:17
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QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 08:16) *
Was the driver visiting a resident of the estate by invitation.?


Hi, the driver had just popped into the school office (there is a school on the estate). Not sure if that would count as visiting a resident.

QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 13:45) *
Do answer the question about the driver's authorisation to be parked (resident? visitor?).

And don't panic - we almost never see a Gladstones claim lost by posters here or on MSE forum, as long as you read other Gladstones claims and defend similarly.



Thanks @SchoolRunMum.

Apologies for the late reply - had a busy day at work.

The driver had just popped into the school office which is on the estate, so not a resident. Does that class the driver as a visitor?
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cabbyman
post Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 17:18
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Please clarify your use of the term 'estate.'

Can you post a GSV, please?


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Cabbyman 8 PPCs 0
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RM_2007
post Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 17:25
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 18:18) *
Please clarify your use of the term 'estate.'

Can you post a GSV, please?


Its a private housing development as far as I know - that's what I meant by estate.

Cant seem to get a GSV inside - seems Google hasn't updated/captured inside. The following is the entrance to the development.

GSV
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cabbyman
post Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 17:33
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Are you talking about spaces in Scholars Way opposite the school no waiting markings?

Pics of the signs will probably be a major part of defending this.


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Cabbyman 8 PPCs 0
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RM_2007
post Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 17:36
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 18:33) *
Are you talking about spaces in Scholars Way opposite the school no waiting markings?

Pics of the signs will probably be a major part of defending this.


Yes that would be in Scholars way. Not sure what signs are up - will ask someone local to take a few photos.

I'm told that the driver was only away for a few mins and there wasn't a windscreen ticket - just a NTK through the post.
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cabbyman
post Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 17:42
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As they quote PoFA 2012 sched 4, your time would be well spent checking their PCN against the requirements in para 9......to the letter. Again, a main plank of defence for them to hold the RK liable.


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Cabbyman 8 PPCs 0
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RM_2007
post Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 21:14
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QUOTE (RM_2007 @ Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 18:36) *
QUOTE (cabbyman @ Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 18:33) *
Are you talking about spaces in Scholars Way opposite the school no waiting markings?

Pics of the signs will probably be a major part of defending this.


Yes that would be in Scholars way. Not sure what signs are up - will ask someone local to take a few photos.

I'm told that the driver was only away for a few mins and there wasn't a windscreen ticket - just a NTK through the post.


I should have added that it was not in one of the private parking spaces, but on the road next to the school, on the double yellow lines. I've someone to get some photo's of the signage etc as I will not be in the area.
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RM_2007
post Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 21:31
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Mon, 27 Mar 2017 - 18:42) *
As they quote PoFA 2012 sched 4, your time would be well spent checking their PCN against the requirements in para 9......to the letter. Again, a main plank of defence for them to hold the RK liable.


Thanks @cabbyman

I've had a quick look and will have a more detailed look in the morning.

From the initial look, from what I can see the NTK does not meet PoFA, para 9(2)(a) as the NTK does not state the "the period of parking to which the notice relates".

The NTK simply says "The above incident took place in the following Parking Control Management UK ltd (PCM) managed parking area: <name of development> on <date> at <time>"

...not sure if I should give the location details, date and time in the post

so it does not specify the period which I assume should be the duration the car was allegedly parked at the location? Please correct me if I have misunderstood.

I have also read on another forum that it may be worthwhile to ask the DVLA to provide details on any searches on my vehicle to determine if the NTK meets para 11.

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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 28 Mar 2017 - 07:39
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Yes, period of parking is the time the car parked and the time the car left.

DVLA - Thats only really needed for multiple tickets, as they have to get the address of RK every single time from the DVLA

If it is on a road, is it a council road? If on private land, Double yellow lines hae NO intrinsic meaning so again signage is key.

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 - 07:40
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Gan
post Tue, 28 Mar 2017 - 08:29
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You can argue that it's not "relevant land" and POFA doesn't apply at all

The public have unrestricted access to it and therefore the Road Traffic Enactments apply

PCM specialises in placing inconspicuous signs on private roads that have the appearance of public

This post has been edited by Gan: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 - 08:30
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RM_2007
post Wed, 19 Apr 2017 - 00:08
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Hi all,

Just an update. Whilst away I got a new letter from Gladstones giving me another 7 days and showing what additional charges I *could* face.



Also here are the signs that were nearby.

This was the closest I believe (note its quite high up - first storey level)



And here is another one in the at a lower level a little further away



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emanresu
post Wed, 19 Apr 2017 - 05:14
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If you were carrying a ladder and a magnifying glass then the driver MIGHT have entered a contract. We haven't yet seen Gladstones suggest that in a claim - but just a heads up in case they do. wink.gif


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 19 Apr 2017 - 09:47
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Its also a forbidding sign. It only offers parking to two classes, anyone else isnt offered anything at all.
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RM_2007
post Wed, 10 May 2017 - 23:03
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Just got this on Monday. This time saying its the final letter before court.

Is there any benefit in responding to them or just wait for the court papers?

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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 11 May 2017 - 08:17
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Thats a real LBA, so must be responded to. And youve waited a few days to post it, so they may already have a claim ready to go.

Look for LBA responses.
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RM_2007
post Thu, 11 May 2017 - 18:09
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 11 May 2017 - 09:17) *
Thats a real LBA, so must be responded to. And youve waited a few days to post it, so they may already have a claim ready to go.

Look for LBA responses.


Thanks nosferatu1001.

I think the letter arrived Monday the 8th but I didn't get to it till Tuesday. But you are very right, every day counts.

I'll look at the LBA responses.
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