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Parking Property Management and Gladstones
AnEmptyShelf
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 22:05
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Good evening, thank you for your time in reading and also apologies in advance for any newbie mistakes!

First off, Im a little worried that too much information MAY give the game away as to my identity so I will do my best to provide as much information as possible without incriminating myself, but if you do feel as though Im somewhat lacking in some vital information please feel free to put me to rights rolleyes.gif

So a brief history into the situation:-

We bought a new flat which came with an allocated parking space which is leased from the landlord (the developer). At the time of moving in and signing the lease no parking restrictions were in place, all of the residents used common sense to park in what ever bay came with the flat they owned where applicable and everything was great. My lease is a fairly generic lease but it DOES NOT mention that parking restrictions are in force.

A few months later and the managing agent wrote to us and said that parking restrictions were going to be put in place and that we had to display permits by such and such date, or course, we forgot (as did quite a few other residents) and were issued with a couple of PCNs for not displaying a valid permit. We also used to receive Notices when ever we parked our vehicles in empty bays whilst nipping into our flats, unloading the shopping etc, or leaving our vehicles in known empty 'unoccupied' bays when we'd finished 16 hour + days. I ignored these tickets, and reminders, and all but one disappeared.

I then received what is best described as the worst formatted Letter Before Claim I have ever seen, from Gladstones, which turned up in the post off memory a couple of days before the County Court Claim Form.

At the time, I acknowledged the claim and filed my defence based on my lease and also wrote to the managing agent who subsequently had the claim dropped. Im not sure on what grounds this claim was dropped, but I received a Notice of Discontinuance and that was that, or so I thought.

Recently I have received another Claim Form, this time with no prior warning (with the exception of the reminder letters sent way back last year) or Letter Before Claim.

They are now claiming for two other PCNs which are dated one before and one after the first claim, which begs the question as to why they have only decided to act now. I suspect that they have sat back and looked at the numerous PCNs issued and decided to take action on the two that are the most likely to receive payment, where a vehicle registered to a business is parked in a bay which does not belong to the registered business (the others were all received in our bay)

I have acknowledged the claim on MCOL, but that is as far as I have got as I want to know where I stand before I start on my defence.

Id be interested to see what the experts on here think of the situation, any help would be greatly appreciated. Ive also listed some queries below:-

I have read several posts on here and also example letters to send to the managing agent and the DVLA regarding the misuse of my information etc but don't really know if they apply?

I also don't know if they can simply take a business to court without the knowledge of the driver? As it stands I have not put this information forward.

Does the lack of parking restrictions on the lease give any room for manoeuvre?

I also have written permission (via email) to use of the bay where the tickets were received, from a representative of the landlord which dates back years with no mention of when I had to stop using the bay. As it stands, work is STILL ongoing in the bay we own and we are STILL using the bay in question.

Signage in the car park is very limited, are there guidelines as to the layout that these must adhere to?


Any help would be greatly appreciated

P.S, whilst doing some epic googling I found a great youtube video of Gladstones Solicitors acting extremely professional, much like their letter before claim.
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post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 22:05
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Chitlord
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 22:18
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Do you have your lease to hand? If not get a copy and post here what it says about parking.
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ostell
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 22:41
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THis would be of interest to you

If there are no parking restrictions on you lease why should a third party try to enforce some?

Attack the managing agents and demand that they stop these parking charges on residents vehicles
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AnEmptyShelf
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 22:48
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QUOTE (Chitlord @ Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 22:18) *
Do you have your lease to hand? If not get a copy and post here what it says about parking.


There isn't a specific parking section but here are some parts which I feel are relevant to parking.

Rights included in the demise

The exclusive right to use the Parking Space for the purpose of parking a single fully taxed and licensed private motor car or motorcycle in a roadworthy condition capable of being parked wholly within the boundaries of the parking space.

The right for a visitor to temporarily park in the visitors parking space a single fully taxed and licensed private motor vehicle not exceeding three tonnes in gross laden weight or a motorcycle (which is in a roadworthy condition and capable of being parked wholly within the boundaries of such space) in common with the owners and occupiers of the owners and properties and their visitors on a first come first served basis subject to availability.

The right for the lessee and the tenant or occupiers of the demised premises his or their employees and visitors (in common with all other persons having the like right) to go past and repass at all times and for all purposes of access to and egress from the demised premises and the parking space over and along the private roads the access ways and over and along the passage ways corridors and staircases forming part of the common parts of the building

The word which sticks in my mind there is 'private'....
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AnEmptyShelf
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 23:05
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QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 22:41) *
THis would be of interest to you

If there are no parking restrictions on you lease why should a third party try to enforce some?

Attack the managing agents and demand that they stop these parking charges on residents vehicles


Thanks, I'll have a look and see what I can learn. I have exhausted all avenues with the managing agent, they are simply unwilling to have any more PCNs cancelled on the grounds that all of the PCNs were not disclosed when they were having the other claim cancelled. Given that some of them were in the past I didn't see it relevant at the time... To be fair they are an extremely lousy agent and I was fairly surprised when they agreed the first time to be honest. I have advised them that I would consult my solicitor on the grounds of harassment from these parking companies, which would of course involves them given it is them who appointed the parking firm however I don't really want to incur the costs at this early stage, Ive learned they have a habit of spiralling out of control when you let emotion get in the way of things!
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ostell
post Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 08:11
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I think that the statement "Exclusive use" is the killer for PPM. If you have exclusive use then what are PPM doing running a business on your property. And what are the management company doing leasing out your parking space to another company? I have this very nice London property for rent, Buckingham Palace. You interested?

Read that Parking Prankster article and hunt for a few more similar threads in the forum. That section you stated from your lease seems very familiar.

You will now be warning the company to stay off your property and to take no further action. You require them to confirm within 10 days that they have removed your details from their records under Section ?? of the DPA as their continued action is causing stress and anxiety. Further action by them after this notice will result in a claim against them for a breach of the DPA for each and every parking charge issued.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 09:11
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Sue the managing agent for tortious interference with your lease. Imagie they might notice

Theyre supposed to work FOR YOUR BENEFIT. Doesnt sound like they are.

Tell the managing agent that you only displayed permits for the convenience of their operator, but due to the unwarranted harassment and interference with the exclusive rights granted under your lease, you will no longer do so. You withdraw access t othem, and to any agent, to your parking space and any further entry to the space will be regarded as trespass. You require them to tell their agents to cancel all outstanding parking charges, withdraw this spurioius claim X else you will hold both them and their agents jointly and severally liable for the breach of yoru lease.

Get your defence completed here. LOADS to go on.

The word "private" wont knacker you - if the Freeholder - not the managing agent, they wont have such powers grantd them - wanted to take action, it is for brech of lease. Not a parking company running a business from YOUR land.
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ostell
post Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 09:19
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QUOTE (AnEmptyShelf @ Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 23:05) *
I don't really want to incur the costs at this early stage, Ive learned they have a habit of spiralling out of control when you let emotion get in the way of things!


Small Claims Court, which any proceedings would be in, has a limit on costs. Which is why the PPCs try to sneak in extra charges that they are not really entitled to.


So get that letter off to the agents as Nos suggested. May just shut them up and get them to cancel

This post has been edited by ostell: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 09:20
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 09:42
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Give the managing agents a deadline - 7 days - to cancel the charges and get this claim cancelled
In parallel require to see a copy of the contract between the parking company and the managing agent. Again, theyre there for YOUR beenfit, you have a right as a leasholder to see these contracts IT wouldnt surprise me if the MA get s kick back on each paid ticket.
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Lynnzer
post Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 09:45
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Lots of useful template style letters on my signature link for residential parking.

You need the first one suitably edited to fit, then the one to the managing agent for tortious interference.

Post a copy of each before you submit them so we can check them out.


--------------------
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AnEmptyShelf
post Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 15:51
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thank you so much for the help and replies so far guys, Im absolutely staggered how much you are all willing to help.

Ive taken what you have advised on board however whilst I appreciate that I can apply the rules against parking tickets received in my bay, what about ones which were incurred in the one which isn't necessarily covered in my lease?

Im going to draft some letters today/this evening and will post on here for your judgement.

Once again, thank you for the help and support
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 16:08
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"The right for a visitor to temporarily park in the visitors parking space a single fully taxed and licensed private motor vehicle not exceeding three tonnes in gross laden weight or a motorcycle (which is in a roadworthy condition and capable of being parked wholly within the boundaries of such space) in common with the owners and occupiers of the owners and properties and their visitors on a first come first served basis subject to availability. "
Covers visitors bays, yes?

Maybe set out a summary of exactly what "type" of tickets you have?

e.g. X tickets - relate to own bay
Y tickets - vistiorrs
Z tickets - ????
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AnEmptyShelf
post Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 16:31
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 16:08) *
"The right for a visitor to temporarily park in the visitors parking space a single fully taxed and licensed private motor vehicle not exceeding three tonnes in gross laden weight or a motorcycle (which is in a roadworthy condition and capable of being parked wholly within the boundaries of such space) in common with the owners and occupiers of the owners and properties and their visitors on a first come first served basis subject to availability. "
Covers visitors bays, yes?

Maybe set out a summary of exactly what "type" of tickets you have?

e.g. X tickets - relate to own bay
Y tickets - vistiorrs
Z tickets - ????


This the thing, we don't have any visitors bays despite being told that there would be. The bay in question is simply down as 'rented' on the deeds however in 18 months no one has ever parked in it with the exception of me on a couple of occasions.

To date I have

2 x Not Displaying a valid permit (parked in other bay)
3 x Not Displaying a valid permit (parked in our bay)
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ostell
post Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 16:37
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So where in the lease does it say that you have to display permit and be charged for not doing so? Does the tickets identify the bay in any way?

This post has been edited by ostell: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 16:37
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 16:47
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Indeed, youre losing sight of the FACT your lease does NOT require you to display a permit in ANY bay
If the freeholder wants to enfore the lease and deal with parking NOT in the demised bay, then they have to do that as a lease matter.

Nowhere do they have authority to require the use of permits. given that this is a fact, there is no way for them to use this parking company to check for permits.
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Fed Up With Scam...
post Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 20:20
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Lynnzer - I realise this is not my post but I have some questions to ask you in relation to your residential-parking pdf. http://www.thebridesmother.co.uk/Media/res...ial-parking.pdf

How and where should I ask you my questions? I don't want to mess up this page for the original writer.

Many thanks.

QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 09:45) *
Lots of useful template style letters on my signature link for residential parking.

You need the first one suitably edited to fit, then the one to the managing agent for tortious interference.

Post a copy of each before you submit them so we can check them out.

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Chitlord
post Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 20:58
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You need to get some clear photos for court of all signs, and a site plan, judges likes things to be clear.





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The Slithy Tove
post Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 21:01
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QUOTE (AnEmptyShelf @ Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 16:31) *
To date I have

2 x Not Displaying a valid permit (parked in other bay)
3 x Not Displaying a valid permit (parked in our bay)

But you said
QUOTE (AnEmptyShelf @ Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 22:05) *
Recently I have received another Claim Form, this time with no prior warning (with the exception of the reminder letters sent way back last year) or Letter Before Claim.

They are now claiming for two other PCNs which are dated one before and one after the first claim

So, which two of the 5 incidents above is this court claim for? It's those 2 you have to defend. Forget the others for now.
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AnEmptyShelf
post Fri, 17 Feb 2017 - 07:39
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QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 21:01) *
QUOTE (AnEmptyShelf @ Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 16:31) *
To date I have

2 x Not Displaying a valid permit (parked in other bay)
3 x Not Displaying a valid permit (parked in our bay)

But you said
QUOTE (AnEmptyShelf @ Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 22:05) *
Recently I have received another Claim Form, this time with no prior warning (with the exception of the reminder letters sent way back last year) or Letter Before Claim.

They are now claiming for two other PCNs which are dated one before and one after the first claim

So, which two of the 5 incidents above is this court claim for? It's those 2 you have to defend. Forget the others for now.


It is for the two for not displaying a valid permit in other bay (not ours).

With regards to the identification of the parking bay numbering, they have pictures of my vehicle when the alleged offence took place - however on three out of the four pictures taken there is no evidence of a parking ticket. Only one picture has a PCN on the windscreen.
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AnEmptyShelf
post Fri, 17 Feb 2017 - 07:49
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QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 09:45) *
Lots of useful template style letters on my signature link for residential parking.

You need the first one suitably edited to fit, then the one to the managing agent for tortious interference.

Post a copy of each before you submit them so we can check them out.


Lynzer, thank you for your reply. Ive just taken a quick look at the residential letter template however I am not a Freeholder as the Freehold is still owned by the developer. Would that template still apply albeit replacing Freehold with Leaseholder?
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