PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

SIP NTK Received, Appeal
cpu2007
post Thu, 20 Oct 2016 - 15:16
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 340
Joined: 22 May 2011
Member No.: 46,879



hi everyone

I hope someone can help me with this.

I have received an NTK from SIP for not appealing/paying for a parking charge notice.
This was given to me for not paying. This was paid by phone but because i paid by the phone service and was a bit late, I did it while going to work.
the paybyphone service was throwing a server error, I've tried a couple of times and it didn't work then I tried after half an hour and it worked and it worked.
However, when i returned I had the ticket.

Can I challenge this?

I didn't challenge the penalty charge notice and when I received the NTK they said I had no ground for appeal.
This is what I sent them:

QUOTE
Dear Sir or Madam,

This is my formal representation to SIP Parking Limited in regards to the Parking Charge Notice I have received for the following date: 19/10/2016
The Parking Charge Notice that I am appealing against is the following: ***

After receiving the Notice to Keeper (NTK) I have realised that the Parking Charge Notice you’re trying to enforce doesn’t comply with the protection of freedom act, therefore there is no keeper liability for the following reasons:

(a) The notice doesn’t specify the period of parking to which the charges relate.
(b) The outstanding tariff to which the charges relate,

Additionally, I would like to have photographic evidence showing where the car was parked and the period the Civil Enforcement Officer waited before issuing the ticket.


I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Yours faithfully

Their reply:
QUOTE
Dear Sir,

Please be advised, you have no ability to appeal, we have considered your email on the basis of extenuating circumstances and find no grounds to cancel the charge based on the points raised.

We suggest that you re-read the notice to keeper provided, within the documentation you will find the information you state is not enclosed.

No photographic evidence relevant with the keeper, the PCN will continue its normal recovery action.

Kind regards


What should I do ?

Thanks


PS:

I've attached the nTK document too.









This post has been edited by cpu2007: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 - 15:23
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
7 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Thu, 20 Oct 2016 - 15:16
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Jlc
post Thu, 20 Oct 2016 - 15:35
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 27,984
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



Any appeal would be rejected anyway - not that they offer a keeper appeal. Although, they sort of attempt to claim that the keeper is liable but I would agree it's not 100% PoFA compliant. Likewise with the IAS - for which they only offer the 'paid for' version for the keeper. But the driver situation is perhaps somewhat a distraction.

So, bottom line is that there was a frustration of contract. See here. However, only a court can truly arbitrate as the appeal marlarkely is loaded against you.

Therefore, the tariff was paid. The contract was frustrated and the amount demanded is a penalty and not saved by ParkingEye v Beavis. (And the linked case provides weight that a claim might well fail)

However, they are known to issue claims so be prepared for that - but I would put in a terse response as above that any legal action will be vigorously defended and it would be vexatious in the circumstances and you would seek costs should they be unreasonable and proceed. Probably won't stop them issuing a claim but puts you on the right standing.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cabbyman
post Thu, 20 Oct 2016 - 17:32
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5,416
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
From: Hampshire
Member No.: 16,066



Dear sirs,

ref xxxxx

I have made my position clear.

If you are unwilling to accept my appeal, I require you to provide me with access to alternative dispute resolution via an appeal service that substantially complies with The Alternative Dispute Resolution for Consumer Disputes (Competent Authorities and Information) Regulations 2015. Bodies that comply are POPLA or The Ombudsman Service. You will be aware that IAS does not comply with the requirements of these regulations.

Alternatively, please proceed to court without delay.

Love and kisses.


This post has been edited by cabbyman: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 - 17:32


--------------------
Cabbyman 8 PPCs 0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cpu2007
post Thu, 20 Oct 2016 - 22:31
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 340
Joined: 22 May 2011
Member No.: 46,879



Thank you so much Jlc and cabbyman
I will send an email with the advice you've given and hope it goes away, finger crossed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 20 Oct 2016 - 22:54
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,555
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Member No.: 32,130



Well no, it will not go away. the point of responding a couple of times is just to appear reasonable and show them you are not an ignorer but are not a pushover victim either. As JLc says:

QUOTE
However, they are known to issue claims so be prepared for that - but I would put in a terse response as above that any legal action will be vigorously defended and it would be vexatious in the circumstances and you would seek costs should they be unreasonable and proceed. Probably won't stop them issuing a claim but puts you on the right standing.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cpu2007
post Sat, 17 Dec 2016 - 20:37
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 340
Joined: 22 May 2011
Member No.: 46,879



I have sent them an email and they replied later on stating that I have no right to appeal as the time for appeal expired.
So I told them to proceed with their legal action.

Now I have received the following Final Reminder






What should I do next?

Thanks
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Sun, 18 Dec 2016 - 19:31
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16,706
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



Nothing really you can do. Ball is in their court fir now

You could write and state that, as they now lack any reasonable cause to continue processing your data, they must cease doing so. They must treat this as a section 10(1) notice, and have 21 days to confirm that processing has ceased.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cpu2007
post Mon, 19 Dec 2016 - 19:58
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 340
Joined: 22 May 2011
Member No.: 46,879



How long do I have to wait before I get another notification from them? I am asking this because they are taking a lot of time to send them, this last letter came after almost 2 months.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cabbyman
post Mon, 19 Dec 2016 - 20:14
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5,416
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
From: Hampshire
Member No.: 16,066



Up to six years. Forget it until something comes. Get on with your life. smile.gif

Or, do as Nosferatu suggested in post #7. Then make a note to come back here for further advice when your 21 day deadline expires.


--------------------
Cabbyman 8 PPCs 0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cpu2007
post Mon, 24 Apr 2017 - 12:31
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 340
Joined: 22 May 2011
Member No.: 46,879



Speaking of getting on with my life, it looks like they don't want me to lol

Here's a letter from their solicitor a letter before claim.

Does this mean things are gonna get bad?

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 24 Apr 2017 - 12:38
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 27,984
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (cpu2007 @ Mon, 24 Apr 2017 - 13:31) *
Does this mean things are gonna get bad?

Indifferent, not bad.

We wouldn't recommend ignoring a LBC.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cpu2007
post Mon, 24 Apr 2017 - 13:51
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 340
Joined: 22 May 2011
Member No.: 46,879



How should I proceed on this matter, I am not going ignore this.

Does gladstone have an email I can send my appeal to? what grounds can I possibly use now?
Thanks
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Mon, 24 Apr 2017 - 15:07
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,210
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



Was this on railway land by any chance? In which case there can be no keeper liability.

The driver paid by phone and therefore there can be no claim against the driver nor the keeper

The Driver is not responsible for failures in the recommended payment procedures.


Has the driver still got copies of the numbers called etc and any text messages?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cpu2007
post Mon, 24 Apr 2017 - 17:42
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 340
Joined: 22 May 2011
Member No.: 46,879



I don't think it's a railway land, why being in a railway land means there's no keeper liability?(just out of curiosity)

yes I received an sms that proves I've bought a ticket, fortunately I still have a copy of it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Mon, 24 Apr 2017 - 20:58
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,210
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



I got the impression, probably wrong, that you were paying for parking before travelling further by train. Railway land is usually subject to byelaws and the keeper cannot be held liable.

send a copy of that sms to the solicitors and deny any liability as the parking was paid for

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cpu2007
post Mon, 24 Apr 2017 - 21:10
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 340
Joined: 22 May 2011
Member No.: 46,879



Thank you for the explanation ostell. That's what I was thinking of doing as well.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SchoolRunMum
post Mon, 24 Apr 2017 - 21:48
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,555
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Member No.: 32,130



QUOTE (cpu2007 @ Mon, 24 Apr 2017 - 14:51) *
How should I proceed on this matter, I am not going ignore this.


By replying to the LBCCC using examples you find on all the hundreds of threads here exactly the same, and being ready to defend a claim.

Read post #2 of the MSE NEWBIES thread about court stage, where the first few links in post #2 there are examples of replies to an LBCCC:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822

A claim will happen anyway but both forums almost never see anyone lose, whose defence is worked through with advice/input from regulars.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cpu2007
post Wed, 26 Apr 2017 - 15:27
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 340
Joined: 22 May 2011
Member No.: 46,879



Thank you for the link
I've used it and this is what I wrote

Dear Sir or Madam,

Ref: ***

I have received your Letter Before Claim dated 12th of April 2017.

I deny any debt to Sip Parking ltd

You cannot presume that I possess all the documents/details you referred to in your letter.
Please send me copies of all the documents sent by the client, including the windscreen notice if one was attached to the vehicle.

When these are supplied, please also confirm whether the intended action is founded on a contractual charge, a breach of a contract or a trespass.

Please confirm that your client’s contract with the land-holder includes specific authority to take legal action and that this will be produced in court.

When I received the documents and your explanation I will be in a position to make a more detailed response.

I look forward to your response.




PS: I have found their email online, do you think I can send this to their email or do I have to send it via post?

enquiries@gladstonessolicitors.co.uk
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cpu2007
post Thu, 4 May 2017 - 11:30
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 340
Joined: 22 May 2011
Member No.: 46,879



I have send them an appeal to gladstones but it looks like they haven't even read it, I received this letter today.






Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Thu, 4 May 2017 - 12:51
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16,706
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



Gladstones dont read appeals, or letters that dont enclose a cheque.

I cant see those, work blocks whichever site youre using.

Ok you must get on this

You have an actual claim form - STATE SO! It makes things more urgent

Your first step - TODAY- is to go online. Acknowledge the claim, defend in full, do not contest jurisdiction. DO NOT ENTER ANTTHING INTO THE DEFENCE BOX. This is key.

You must then get onto your defence.

Frankly part of their unreasonable behaviour would be issuing so quickly after their lba. Do you have proof of posting?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

7 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Sunday, 24th June 2018 - 22:19
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.