PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

463 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 

Logician
Posted on: Today, 03:15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


If you are the registered keeper, find your V5C (logbook) and at the bottom of page 2 you will find a Doc Ref number, next to that is a date; tell us that date and the date of the alleged offence.

37 in a 30 limit is at the level where a course is normally offered, provided you have not done one in the last 3 years and this was not in Scotland. It is very unlikely the NIP was that late without good reason, and the driver must be nominated in any event.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1462862 · Replies: 4 · Views: 161

Logician
Posted on: Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 20:10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 18:53) *
While a ban is possible, it’s very unlikely. As you don’t have any substantial mitigation to offer then just submit a written letter of mitigation, suggest you post it here for a critique first as some ‘mitigation letters’ we see are more aggravating than mitigation!


+1

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1462566 · Replies: 5 · Views: 457

Logician
Posted on: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 14:05


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 13:08) *
QUOTE (BA1N @ Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 12:46) *
so basically im ****** then
No, I think you'll end up on 9 points temporarily. (And won't tot nor be revoked as you have had your licence over 2 years)


+1

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1462173 · Replies: 8 · Views: 772

Logician
Posted on: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 14:02


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


I think there would be some advantage here in being represented, a solicitor can cast a dispassionate eye over what the OP is going to present and suggest how that might be improved. If the OP simply stands up and talks about delivering therapeutic drum circles to at-risk groups, he may come across as an enthusiast for a very obscure community benefit which can be easily disregarded, whereas a solicitor explaining this may present it more convincingly.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1462170 · Replies: 26 · Views: 2,557

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 21:14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


I suggest you wait until near the end of the 28 days period for the first NIP, and then reply to all the NIPs, putting the replies all in the same envelope, together with letter pointing out that all the offences are on the same piece of road within a few days of each other, you had not quite realised what the limit was and you were following other traffic, as a result of the NIPs you are now fully aware of the limit and that you were speeding, but because the NIPs followed each other so quickly, by the time you were fully aware of the limit, you had already committed further offences. Request that in these circumstances these offences should be treated as a single offence, as you were not able to adjust your driving in time. We have known this approach be successful in other cases. Perhaps you might get it reduced to one course and one fixed penalty.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1461975 · Replies: 8 · Views: 588

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 14:38


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


The sensible and straightforward meaning is that if the administrative difficulties are caused by the offender, then he should not get the benefit of this provision, if they are not his fault then he can get the benefit.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1461818 · Replies: 35 · Views: 2,644

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 14:30


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


I would not just turn up at the police station where it is unlikely anyone would know anything about it. I would complete the s.172 notice nominating himself as the driver. Either a) he will then receive a SJPN for careless driving and failing to stop/report or b) the police will want to talk to him. If a) he may or may not want to instruct a solicitor, if b) he should instruct a solicitor because they may be getting more serious.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1461816 · Replies: 25 · Views: 834

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 14:04


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


If a fixed penalty is offered and accepted you do not have to go to court.
If the matter for some reason goes to court you can plead guilty by post and not go to court.
You only have to go to court if:
1. You wish to plead not guilty.
2. You intend to plead guilty and are already on 6 points so that you become a totter, facing 6 months disqualification.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1461805 · Replies: 31 · Views: 1,551

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 00:49


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


Provided your father can still be contacted via the UK address, that is OK.

If he is on your insurance, there is no problem, give his Spanish address and the speeding may be dropped. If he is not on your insurance, he is probably not insured to drive your UK car, any insurance he has in Spain will not cover him. In that case give his UK address and the insurance will probably not be investigated, but he will be done for the speeding.

You have left your name visible on the NIP, you should remove it.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1461677 · Replies: 7 · Views: 430

Logician
Posted on: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 17:58


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


A fixed penalty normally arrives quite quickly, probably within 30 days. An SJPN could take up to 6 months, but probably quicker, the financial penalty would be more than a fixed penalty.

People tell you all sorts of rubbish, you certainly can get a fixed penalty for a phone offence, 6 points and £200.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1461497 · Replies: 31 · Views: 1,551

Logician
Posted on: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 17:51


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE (peterguk @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 17:22) *
QUOTE (Mr_Bo_Jangles @ Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 17:17) *
i would like help putting together an EH plea if you'd be so kind!
I'm confused. I thought you had a total of 6 points on your DL including this conviction. You can't make a EH plea if you're only on 6 points.


No, he has a CU30 with 3 points for defective tyres, so this conviction will bring him up to 9 points. An EH plea is still not relevant of course, that only applies if he gets 12 or more points and is facing a 6 months disqualification.

But Mr Bo Jangles, you must appreciate that in court 6 points are almost certain, 5 points would be very lenient and there is no way you are going to get as little as 3 points, which you would need to keep your points to 6 or below. 65 mph would actually have resulted in all probability in a fixed penalty of only 3 points, and achieved your aim, you may think you could argue that an additional 1 mph should not have such a large impact, but that will cut no ice at all with the court, that is just the way the system works. You really need to resign yourself to having 9 points until the CU30 runs out.

QUOTE
I was totally unaware i had even entered a 40mph restriction, i wasn't intentionally speeding. For whatever reason i missed the sign and continued unawares!


Speeding, like most traffic offences, is a strict liability offence, your intention is quite irrelevant, you were speeding and that is that. Again, your mitigation leads to the likelihood of questions, you were on a motorway with a 40mph limit, and that must mean there were roadworks, possibly a contraflow, how could you miss road works, and roadworks must mean a reduced limit.

I think you would have been better to have accepted the single justice procedure outcome, but you are where you are. I really think you have no mitigation and you are best just to throw yourself on the mercy of the court with something like:

I have no excuse to offer for my speed on this occasion, it can only have been an unfortunate real lapse of concentration for which I can only apologise. Fortunately there was nothing to aggravate the offence, road conditions were good and as it was late at night, traffic was very light. I hope you will feel able to deal with the matter by giving me points, which I assure you will act as a continuing reminder to concentrate fully on my driving at all times.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1461495 · Replies: 23 · Views: 933

Logician
Posted on: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 19:46


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


Your son's case has similarities with that of Debbie Atkinson and her scooter, which you might like to read LINK.
There is an important difference in that your son sold his car, not just permitted a test drive, and then failed to follow the procedure of notifying the DVLA.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1461143 · Replies: 25 · Views: 834

Logician
Posted on: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 19:31


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


Certainly administrative difficulties are an example, but not all administrative difficulties, only those outside the control of the offender, so administrative difficulties is qualified.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1461137 · Replies: 35 · Views: 2,644

Logician
Posted on: Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 23:51


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 22:57) *
QUOTE (bigdaddy1969 @ Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 21:59) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 01:12) *
While it’s of the OPs making it’s still for unreasons unconnected with the offence.
Im sorry I dont understand what that means
The sentencing guidelines say you can receive the fixed penalty level sentencing rather than income related.only qualified by the "unconnected to the offence". There isn't any concept of fault. The reduction is at the magistrates discretion however, so you need to ask politely - either in writing - and tactfully remind the. It is in their sentencing guidelines.


It is also qualified by the words "outside the control of the offender" which do rather introduce a concept of fault.



QUOTE
….where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender






  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1460800 · Replies: 35 · Views: 2,644

Logician
Posted on: Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 18:10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 18:01) *
Right. He will have 6 points on his DL. Any further endorseable offence within 2 years of gaining full DL will cause revocation.


Correct. It is not a well drafted piece of legislation, the really bizarre thing is that disqualification, which is clearly more serious than 6 points, does not trigger revocation. The justification for revocation is that the driver has demonstrated that he is not a careful and competent driver, and so needs more experience and can then be tested again, and it is not a punishment. If that is so, it should apply only for bad driving offences committed on the road, not to paper offence like no insurance.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1460705 · Replies: 21 · Views: 609

Logician
Posted on: Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 18:01


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE (Unlucky1 @ Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 15:41) *
Thanks for the update and giving me an idea of potential outcomes. I feel stupid now for not completing that form I just expected I would get a letter back from them. Please forgive my ignorance but I'm struggling to understand why it best to plead not guilty and attend court. In both cases it has been said they may agree to drop the s.172 if I plead guilty now or outside the court rooms but they also might not. However there is a 33% reduction if I plead guilty now...


There will be a 33% reduction if you plead guilty in court, saying you are not guilty now is not pleading as such, it is an indication of how you will plead in court and means that the case does go to court for a trial. When you get to court after that it is the first opportunity to actually plead, so if you plead guilty then you get the 33% deduction. In Scotland you would get a reduction of 33% in the points as well, if they are discretionary as in speeding, but not if fixed, as in s.172.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1460700 · Replies: 18 · Views: 442

Logician
Posted on: Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 11:02


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE (Unlucky1 @ Sat, 9 Feb 2019 - 22:04) *
Thank you both for your advice and quick responses. I'm a little confused as to how I'm supposed to go about making a deal and what if they don't agree to this? I would rather avoid this as I am guilty..(although I wouldn't class myself as guilty for not completing the form, I just thought it unnecessary given the late nip) Could you give me a best case and worst case scenario if I pleaded guilty out of court compared to your advice? Many thanks


Best case scenario if you plead guilty out of court is that the s.172 is dropped and you are sentenced on the speeding charge by the single justice, worst case is that the s.172 is not dropped, instead your guilty plea is accepted and you get 6 points and a large fine, discounted for your guilty plea, and you are also sentenced for the speeding and get another 3 points. The worst case has happened, so do you want to risk it or take advice?

There is nothing wrong with initially indicating a not guilty plea and then changing your plea when you get to court, it happens in many cases and in your particular situation it is a well tried procedure, which goes as follows: Provided the speeding offence would attract less than 6 points on its own, you should plead Not Guilty to both offences, and then attend court on the date set, [despite a statement on the letter that you do not need to do so]. As there is no evidence as to who was driving your car, since you have not told them, there can be no conviction for the speeding unless you plead guilty. Get to court early and ask one of the ushers (people scurrying about with clipboards and possibly gowns getting things organised) to point out to you the prosecutor who will be dealing with traffic matters. Say to him/her that you will plead guilty to the speeding if they will drop the s.172. We have never heard of prosecutors refusing to do this, they prefer to get a conviction for the underlying offence, and regard the two offences as effectively alternative offences. If you do not manage to speak to the prosecutor beforehand, you should still be able to do the deal in the courtroom. It is very difficult to do this in advance of the court hearing as you would have trouble speaking to the right person




  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1460597 · Replies: 18 · Views: 442

Logician
Posted on: Sat, 9 Feb 2019 - 16:24


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE (Anex @ Sat, 9 Feb 2019 - 15:10) *
It’s a long road and very wide, it’s 40 at some points and she didn’t know it changed to 30 as she saw no signs indicating this. I was just hoping that it would be a SAW course and not points. She has obviously learn her lesson but would benefit from the course to make her more aware in the future!


Yes, the main emphasis of these course is on recognising the limit you are in.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1460437 · Replies: 3 · Views: 253

Logician
Posted on: Sat, 9 Feb 2019 - 16:21


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


You were the registered keeper and it was therefore your responsibility to follow the system set out on the V5C for transferring registration to a new keeper, either in paper form or online, which you did not do. Having relied on the new owner to do this for you, you then did not follow the instructions to contact the DVLA if you did not get an acknowledgment within 4 weeks. You are already being charged with a lower level offence, it could have been permitting driving with no insurance, which carries a large fine and 6 points. I do not see any way of getting anything better out of this, other than trying to get the £350 out of the man who let you down.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1460436 · Replies: 10 · Views: 902

Logician
Posted on: Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 15:38


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE (Starworshipper12 @ Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 12:27) *
Fair point, but when I joined I took time to read the ‘house rules’ as posted by Fredd, in which he advised: ‘Please use the search function and read around topics to try to understand your issue. This is particularly relevant if you're heading to court. While posters will help you they are not here to babysit you and do everything for you. You will need to put in some effort yourself to try to learn a bit about the topic’. I felt this was good advice given the veritable mine of information we are all sitting on. I apologise if I’ve caused any inconvenience to any members.


You are quite right, it is very good advice, and you followed it, to your credit. We do not know of course, how many people do that, get the answer to their problem and go on their merry way. We do get people who say they have done the research and their problem is different and therefore they are posting, or want confirmation that their understanding is correct, and very many who have clearly read nothing at all. We try to help them all, regardless. I love the ones who simply post minimal details, with no elaboration and no question, as though posting here was automatically going to make their problem go away!

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1460149 · Replies: 31 · Views: 1,551

Logician
Posted on: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 23:29


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


Thanks Andy.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1459918 · Replies: 8 · Views: 738

Logician
Posted on: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 19:56


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


Time as in time of day
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1459849 · Replies: 8 · Views: 738

Logician
Posted on: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 16:54


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 15:27) *
Is the correct construction of the request not “who was the driver at the time it was parked”?


I think, although I have not seen it, that it is written just as though it was a moving traffic offence, requesting the name of the driver at a specific time.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1459789 · Replies: 8 · Views: 738

Logician
Posted on: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 12:41


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


A friend of a friend is a bus operator who has been in dispute with the police about parking up a bus during the day, somewhere the police do not like. He has now been served with a s.172 notice requiring the name of the driver at a time when the bus was parked there, and had been for some hours. I think he can quite reasonably reply that there was no driver at the time concerned. Wilkinson's is clear that the man behind the wheel is still the driver even if the vehicle is not moving, and continues even when he has stopped, applied the handbrake and secured the vehicle. But if he stops and an appreciable time elapses it will be a question of fact and degree if he is still regarded as the driver. When a motorist arrives at the end of his journey, then subject to this brief interval he can no longer be regarded as driving. In this case the driver has left the vehicle and gone off some time before, so I think can no longer be the driver.

I have warned though that the police may still prosecute for failing to identify the driver and a magistrates' court may still convict, because they are not always sympathetic to legal niceties.

If the police instead issue another s.172 notice requiring the name of the driver who first parked the bus, would that be a valid s.172 notice since it does not specify a known time? Is there a valid way of not providing the information?




  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1459686 · Replies: 8 · Views: 738

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 11:52


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,762
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE
the first NIP arrived about a week after i advertised my car online for sale.


Did you put up a photo showing the plate? While cloned plates are unusual, and misreads are more common (based on what we see here) two instances make cloning seem quite likely.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1459279 · Replies: 18 · Views: 1,227

463 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 

New Posts  New Replies
No New Posts  No New Replies
Hot topic  Hot Topic (New)
No new  Hot Topic (No New)
Poll  Poll (New)
No new votes  Poll (No New)
Closed  Locked Topic
Moved  Moved Topic
 

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Sunday, 17th February 2019 - 14:50
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.