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PCN from hospital visit
oliverd22
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 14:30
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Hi all

I am so glad and grateful this forum still exists, I've been helped a couple of times before on here and always massively appreciated it.

A friend of mine has received this PCN. It appears the driver at the time was unaware they were parking in a staff car park (middle of the night, car park was virtually empty).



I haven't had a parking charge for about 3 years now, but I recall the arguments I last used at POPLA which may also apply to this case are:

- The Notice to Keeper is not compliant with the POFA 2012 because it does not specify the total amount of those parking charges that are unpaid
- The operator has no standing or authority to pursue charges nor form a contract with the driver
- The charge was not based upon a Genuine Pre Estiamte Of Loss
- Unclear, inadequate and non-compliant signage - the particular point in this case being that the signage was not lit and it was the middle of the night.

Are all of the above still valid arguments, and is there anything else I should add?

Would it be worth including these arguments in the initial appeal to the PPC, in the hope they will see they'll lose at POPLA and allow the appeal immediately, or would it be better to just do a standard response to the PPC in the expectation it will be rejected, then use the above arguments at POPLA?

Thanks!
Oliver
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post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 14:30
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Glacier2
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 14:38
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You have a golden ticket. Too late for POFA compliance.

PE will reject no matter what you say so send a standard appeal. Then hit them in the guts at POPLA.
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ostell
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 15:00
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It has been a while since you had a charge ! GPEOL is dead since Beavis.

Was there a windscreen ticket? Can you post up the revers of the PCN please/
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Redivi
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 16:14
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Looks like a ParkingEye notice but it's CPP
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Glacier2
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 16:16
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Same back office, same people.
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cabbyman
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 16:36
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Different legal entity.


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Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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oliverd22
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 16:41
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QUOTE (Glacier2 @ Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 14:38) *
You have a golden ticket. Too late for POFA compliance.

PE will reject no matter what you say so send a standard appeal. Then hit them in the guts at POPLA.


I feel like a right plum, the date was the first thing I checked. Saw it was the 10th and it was therefore fine as that was 6 days ago. Clearly the concept of different months and years is lost of me!

Great, I will put in the standard appeal to the PPC and then hit them at POPLA with the date.

Is it worth including the other items in the POPLA appeal, aside from GPEOL? Or is it a waste of time as it's an automatic success based on being outside the 14-days?

Ta!
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cabbyman
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 17:03
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Nothing at POPLA is automatic. You would use the date as point 1, but, even if the date was correct, this is wrong. Even if that wasn't wrong, something else is wrong, etc., etc.

Lead POPLA down a path until they can draw only one conclusion. IF, POPLA refused the appeal, it's a sure fire winner in court.


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Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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Glacier2
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 17:25
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A single point appeal to POPLA on Non compliance with POFA will win. Sometimes it is best not to cloud the mind of the assessor with extra points that are not really needed when you have a killer point appeal.
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cabbyman
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 17:40
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It's the OP's choice, of course, but single point appeals haven't been recommended for years. The standard 4000 word appeal is generally successful but, maybe reword it to lead the assessor to an inescapable conclusion.

Also, get in touch with PALS at the hospital and remind them firmly about the recent NHS and DoH guidance on parking charges.

This post has been edited by cabbyman: Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 17:43


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bobthesod
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 18:03
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cabby man
I thought the KISS appeal was considered a better approach

point 1 POFA says this
they hve failed by not doing it
Points 2 onwards in the same format with any pics to back it up

But 4000 words! i would lose the will to live having to read that.

Is there a copy of this tome on the site anywhere
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oliverd22
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 18:15
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Thanks all for your input, much appreciated.

I will go with POFA compliance as the obvious one but back it up with unclear, inadequate and non-compliant signage, highlighting the fact the signage was not lit, and add that the operator has no standing or authority to pursue charges nor form a contract with the driver.

Am, as ever, very grateful for the support and advice from this forum.

Thanks!
Oliver
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ostell
post Sat, 19 Jan 2019 - 20:15
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For the first appeal to the PPC just mention they have failed POFA 9 (4) and they can't transfer liability from the driver.

Hunt around and you will find my out of time appeal in other threads.
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