District Council to change name |
District Council to change name |
Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 22:32
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,963 Joined: 19 Dec 2006 From: Near Calais Member No.: 9,683 |
The local facebook groups are alive with the fact that Shepway District Council is to change its name to folkestone & Hythe District Council at a cost of £10,000 "to change the stationery".
Which sent me thinking...what about the signs in car parks, the PCNs, the Traffic Regulation Orders, the Civil enforcement Officers Uniforms... As PCNs etc are in the name of Shepway D.C. presumably they would cease to be valid from the date of the name change? Any ideas anyone? What would the rough cost of the other changes be? This post has been edited by roythebus: Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 22:33 |
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Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 22:32
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Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 23:31
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
.......... What would the rough cost of the other changes be? Fecking huge. This sort of rebranding does not stop at stationery, as you point out, every single official sign needs changing. Official legislation would need rebranding as well, TROs? Though I assume a blanket TRO that reaffirms existing in the new name would do ? My question is why ? Shepway has been the traditional name and I assume one the locals are happy with. But council seem to think people don't know where Shepway is ? http://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/sh...ecision-1081532 |
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Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 23:50
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,963 Joined: 19 Dec 2006 From: Near Calais Member No.: 9,683 |
I don't suppose for one moment that the councillors have taken account of the hidden costs or even the potential loss of things like parking revenue, even council tax! They have ignored "the will of the people" to quote the vernacular and totally ignored the people who live on the Romney Marsh whose area is now being totally ignored by the name change. No doubt they will still be expected to pay their dues to Folkestone & Hythe!
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Fri, 19 Jan 2018 - 21:49
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
I’m not sure why you think the TRO’s will need to be changed?
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 19 Jan 2018 - 22:28
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 587 Joined: 18 Sep 2008 From: Folkestone, Kent Member No.: 22,623 |
They have ignored "the will of the people" Nobody consulted me about the name change - so I have not expressed an opinion. Until you mentioned it, I was completely unaware of the upcoming change. Now that I am, I can't say I'm bothered one way or the other although I accept that others, such as yourself, may well be. From my point of view there are many more important things to get excited about than a name change. |
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Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 18:33
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,963 Joined: 19 Dec 2006 From: Near Calais Member No.: 9,683 |
I’m not sure why you think the TRO’s will need to be changed? Because they will all be in the old name of an organisation that no longer exists. Like the parking tickets...There's a lot of hidden expenses which they have not told their ratepayers about. Personally they can call the place whatever they like, I used to live there, but there's a lot of FB activity over the name change and the costs, especially when there's far more important things to spend money on. Like the umpteen £m on planning a "new town" on the old racecourse site, the £m on the proposed massive lorry park that isn't going to happen, the usual district council wasting money scenario. |
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Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 18:47
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
I’m not sure why you think the TRO’s will need to be changed? Because they will all be in the old name of an organisation that no longer exists. Like the parking tickets...Which matters not a jot, the order stays in place unless or until it’s changed or rescinded. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 21:34
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 195 Joined: 4 Mar 2014 Member No.: 69,189 |
But with parking, the enforcement authority is the authority that made the traffic regulation order and if that authority no longer exists in name how can parking be enforced by an enforcement authority that no longer exists? Have I misunderstood?
This post has been edited by Wretched Rectum: Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 21:36 |
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Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 22:36
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 960 Joined: 13 Jul 2011 From: Bocking Member No.: 48,194 |
They have ignored "the will of the people" Nobody consulted me about the name change - so I have not expressed an opinion. Until you mentioned it, I was completely unaware of the upcoming change. Now that I am, I can't say I'm bothered one way or the other although I accept that others, such as yourself, may well be. From my point of view there are many more important things to get excited about than a name change. The will be spending your money and much more that they have stated. I would be asking serious questions from them. |
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Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 22:36
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Have I misunderstood? Yes. Equating a change of name with the authority not being the same authority is overly simplistic and incorrect. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 00:10
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 195 Joined: 4 Mar 2014 Member No.: 69,189 |
Have I misunderstood? Yes. Equating a change of name with the authority not being the same authority is overly simplistic and incorrect. Thanks for the info. I based what i said on sched 8. Considering what you say I suspect there might be some transitional savings written into any legal change of name. (5)References in this Part of this Act to the enforcement authority in relation to parking contraventions in a civil enforcement area outside Greater London, are— (a)in relation to contraventions relating to a parking place— (i)provided or authorised under section 32(1)(a) or (b) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (c. 27), or (ii)designated by order under section 45 of that Act, to the authority by whom the parking place was provided, authorised or designated; (b)in relation to other parking contraventions, to the local authority in whose area the contravention is committed. |
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Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 01:24
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
The thorniest issue is parking places, as other parking contraventions have no link between who made the relevant order and who is the enforcement authority. While a saving provision may be sensible it’s probably not necessary. A rose by any other name etc.
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 10:08
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 587 Joined: 18 Sep 2008 From: Folkestone, Kent Member No.: 22,623 |
The will be spending your money and much more that they have stated. I would be asking serious questions from them. They spend "my" money anyway. Not sure how you know they will be spending "much more". What serious questions? They have decided to change their name and that's that. |
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Mon, 22 Jan 2018 - 13:31
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,963 Joined: 19 Dec 2006 From: Near Calais Member No.: 9,683 |
The TROs are usually in the name of Kent county Council and Shepway DC is the enforcement authority. Therefore unless I've missed something, if SDC ceases to exist they can no longer be the enforcement authority. And remember they sub out the enforcement to someone like NSL/NCP/not-sure-who-has-got-the-contract-this week..so all their uniforms have to have a change of lettering as to who they are working for.
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Mon, 22 Jan 2018 - 13:40
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
Roy, I think things like TROs, bylaws and probably all council contracts would be covered by a single legal document that says something like Shepway is now to be known as F&H and all bits of legalese naming Shepway will now apply to F&H.
Was the way it was done with company name changes I've seen. Probably one of our legal beagles can give more legalistic comment on that. |
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Mon, 22 Jan 2018 - 13:51
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Probably one of our legal beagles can give more legalistic comment on that. I thought I had. The entity isn’t ceasing to exist it is continuing to exist albeit under a different name. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Mon, 22 Jan 2018 - 14:29
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
The TROs are usually in the name of Kent county Council and Shepway DC is the enforcement authority. Therefore unless I've missed something, if SDC ceases to exist they can no longer be the enforcement authority. And remember they sub out the enforcement to someone like NSL/NCP/not-sure-who-has-got-the-contract-this week..so all their uniforms have to have a change of lettering as to who they are working for. Contracts can be assigned or novated. Easily done, or maybe not so easily done (meaning lawyers get to charge loads of fees), but there is absolutely no chance that chaos would ensue. --Churchmouse |
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Mon, 22 Jan 2018 - 18:19
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,931 Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Member No.: 4,323 |
IME (some) District Councils do some weird a$$ed sh!t.
We assuming that "change of name" means exactly what it says. It may well be exactly what they are doing - but I would check...... -------------------- Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.
Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader. |
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 14:24
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
The TROs are usually in the name of Kent county Council and Shepway DC is the enforcement authority. Therefore unless I've missed something, if SDC ceases to exist they can no longer be the enforcement authority. And remember they sub out the enforcement to someone like NSL/NCP/not-sure-who-has-got-the-contract-this week..so all their uniforms have to have a change of lettering as to who they are working for. SDC won't cease to exist, it will have been renamed. You can change your legal name by Deed Poll, this doesn't mean you cease to exist (Or that any debts you owe disappear for that matter). If that worked, we could just advise everyone on here to do just that. Charged with doing 150mph, failing to stop for police, assault on a constable? No problem, legally change your name and when the matter goes to court, just say the person accused no longer exists, case dismissed! On the other hand, I will be most unimpressed if I married my girlfriend, she took my name and then "ceased to exist"... -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 23 Jan 2018 - 16:01
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
........On the other hand, I will be most unimpressed if I married my girlfriend, she took my name and then "ceased to exist"... Many married men will tell you that the loving, sexy, sparkling girlfriend will cease to exist the moment you say "I do" Whether the replacement wife will be better or worse is a different matter |
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