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FightBack Forums _ The Flame Pit _ Have you been in an accident that was not your fault ?

Posted by: thiscantberight Sat, 3 Apr 2021 - 16:57
Post #1628102

Somebody drove in to the back of my car whilst stationary at a set of red lights at about 40mph the car was recovered back to my home directly after the accident and has suffered structural damage

The ambulance chasers are on the case with the personal injury claim but I am having problems with the insurance

Despite me sending photographs of the crash damage to the insures they still have not written it off but are keen as mustard to the salvage recovery to collet it (Copart) who want me to transfer ownership to them (part 4 on the V5)

Should I wait until the claim is settled before allowing them to collect the car ?


Thanks on advance for any advice

Posted by: mickR Sat, 3 Apr 2021 - 17:30
Post #1628104

Hmm have the ins co sent an engineer to inspect it?
Have they made you an offer of any sort yet?
Whos insurers want it moved yours or the third party? It may make a difference how you approach this.
Its not unusual for an ins co wanting to move to free storsge but in your case it already is!

Also...
What car is it? How old?
Do you want to keep it even if its written off? (Depending on which cat its given)
How do you know its got structural damage?
Have you had a repair estimate from anyone?

Posted by: thiscantberight Sat, 3 Apr 2021 - 17:34
Post #1628105

It may be a case of the left hand not knowing what the right had is doing, I was getting at least two phone calls a day from Copart and was getting fed up with them ringing I did call my insurers and asked them to get them to stop and also told Copart the same

Both my insurers and the other side have asked for photographs of the damage and both said the assessment would be done by photographs owing to the age of the car its over ten years old and COVID

The floor pan is bent in

It is my insurers that want it collected no mention of any sort of monies, form anyone despite, the other sides insurance admitting liability

Posted by: TMC Towcester Sat, 3 Apr 2021 - 18:04
Post #1628110

Which insurers?

Yours of the other party?

Posted by: thiscantberight Sat, 3 Apr 2021 - 18:23
Post #1628112

No the other party have admitted liability


Posted by: mickR Sat, 3 Apr 2021 - 19:27
Post #1628120

Can you post some pics of the damage.
Floor pan damage? Do you mean boot floor or under seats?
Re my earlier question, do you want to keep the vehicle?

Posted by: thiscantberight Sat, 3 Apr 2021 - 20:58
Post #1628134

As this is a live case I would rather not post any photos at this point, but yes I would love to keep the car

the boot is raised up, and the bumper is smashed to bits


the tire well under the boot is creased in, it took one hell of a whack

Its an old car but I have had it since new so can see its worth, the value of it is only £1200 but to me its worth far more

the concern is they want it before they have agreed to pay me

Posted by: Korting Sat, 3 Apr 2021 - 21:21
Post #1628142

What is the mileage? Is it low mileage. i had a similar experience a few years ago, they paid well under market value for a lovely Volvo S60 with around 60-70K on the clock, next thing i knew it had been repaired and someone else is driving around in it.

DO NOT PART WITH IT UNTIL YOU HAVE BEEN PAID WHAT YOU THINK ITS WORTH. Tell the insurance company you want to buy it back.

Posted by: mickR Sat, 3 Apr 2021 - 21:35
Post #1628149

QUOTE (thiscantberight @ Sat, 3 Apr 2021 - 21:58) *
As this is a live case I would rather not post any photos at this point, but yes I would love to keep the car

the boot is raised up, and the bumper is smashed to bits


the tire well under the boot is creased in, it took one hell of a whack


If you want advice we need to know what we are dealing with, please post the pics, its not a murder trial wink.gif

The description youve given doesnt give any idea if its repairable or not.

Posted by: thiscantberight Sat, 3 Apr 2021 - 21:41
Post #1628151

I am aware the car can be fixed, at a price. What I need two know is should I give it to them before that have made any sort of offer and the post above would suggest not so will be ringing Copart to cancel the collection

nothing like this as happened in all my years of driving so this is new to me

Posted by: mickR Sat, 3 Apr 2021 - 23:27
Post #1628163

In that case do not allow your car to be taken or transfer ownership, tell your ins co you want to keep it and if they wont repair, you want a cash in lieu settlement.
Aleays remember the car is your property not the insurance companys.

Posted by: notmeatloaf Sat, 3 Apr 2021 - 23:42
Post #1628164

The insurance company know, almost certainly correctly, that with the damage you describe most cars are write offs. A while back I was driving a Toyota Landcruiser whien some bint in a Fiat 500 reversed into it in the car park. Write off as the impact was sufficient for both cars to "crumple", despite her best protestations at the scene that the car was fine.

If you want to keep the car it is almost immaterial, the insurance company will just deduct the scrap value from your payout.

Though I hate the idea, I always use accident management companies now. I find if you don't the insurance company just dick you around wasting time. If there is an AMC involved suddenly there is an incentive to hurry things up. Not ideal but if insurance companies had helpful claims departments then it wouldn't be required. I've never had an at fault accident and I don't see why I should waste my time when some moron hits me.

Posted by: cp8759 Sun, 4 Apr 2021 - 10:58
Post #1628199

QUOTE (thiscantberight @ Sat, 3 Apr 2021 - 22:41) *
I am aware the car can be fixed, at a price. What I need two know is should I give it to them before that have made any sort of offer and the post above would suggest not so will be ringing Copart to cancel the collection

nothing like this as happened in all my years of driving so this is new to me

Stop listening to the insurance company for a start. If they've admitted liability, you're in the driving seat and you don't have to do anything they say. Also don't use a claims management company, they're all sh*t and will rip you off (notwithstanding what notmeatloaf says, it's no easier / quicker going through a CMC than it is to deal with them directly, if you know what you're doing).

Do not allow the insurance company to take the car, because at that point you've lost all bargaining power as you will have effectively agreed to whatever rubbish terms they offer.

You don't need to "buy back" anything, it's your car and the insurance company cannot just acquire legal title to it.

Long and the short of it is that, if the car only has a true market value of £1,200 and you're happy to accept that as settlement, all you really need to do is drop them a letter saying you'll accept £1,200 in full and final settlement. If they were to dick you around, you can use the small claims courts to recover the money.

If there is anything about the car (recent modifications / repairs / whatever) that makes it worth more than the standard list price, you can demand a higher settlement but would need to substantiate your claim (say for example you'd fitted a brand new original spec engine, the car would obviously be worth more than one with an original engine but you'd need to prove you'd had the work done).

Posted by: thiscantberight Sun, 4 Apr 2021 - 11:40
Post #1628204

Thanks for all the advice ..


In December 2 x New Bridgestone tyres fitted to the front In March this year 2 x new Bridgestone tyres fitted to the back, the week before the crash had a service and MOT done all of this can be substantiated it was ready to take me in to 2022, to say I'm livid is an understatement

the other side has admitted liability provided me with a courtesy car via my insurance, the other side initially started to calling me saying they wanted to settle and got me to send photos to them, when they realised I was pursuing a personal injury claim they lost interest and haven herd form them since

I will never get a car like that one for its market value

thanks again for the replies


Posted by: 666 Sun, 4 Apr 2021 - 11:49
Post #1628205

Unfortunately, tyres, servicing and MOTs are all part of routine maintenance, and simply maintain the vehicle's value rather than enhance it.

If it had bald tyres, no MOT and an incomplete service record it would be worth substantially less.

Posted by: cp8759 Sun, 4 Apr 2021 - 13:30
Post #1628210

QUOTE (666 @ Sun, 4 Apr 2021 - 12:49) *
Unfortunately, tyres, servicing and MOTs are all part of routine maintenance, and simply maintain the vehicle's value rather than enhance it.

+1, that sort of thing is akin to filling the fuel tank. Enhancing the value would be something like respraying it, fitting a new engine and so on.

Posted by: TMC Towcester Sun, 4 Apr 2021 - 17:30
Post #1628228

As above, if the other party's insurer has accepted liability you're on firm ground. Presumably your own insurer is involved? They should be beating up the other lot for any excess as well as the repair or write-off value.

It it's a £1200 car - that's what it's worth. If you can't get the same (ish) car for £1200, then it's not a £1200 car - a simple search on autotrader will tell you that. Or, find someone with a CAP guide and they'll tell you the p/x and retail values based on its previous condition, mileage (same as Parker's but the Bible in the trade).

Cancel any collection until the deal is done to your (reasonable) satisfaction. They're still paying for the courtesy car so the deck is well loaded in your favour.

Posted by: mickR Sun, 4 Apr 2021 - 23:56
Post #1628303

QUOTE (Korting @ Sat, 3 Apr 2021 - 22:21) *
DO NOT PART WITH IT UNTIL YOU HAVE BEEN PAID WHAT YOU THINK ITS WORTH. Tell the insurance company you want to buy it back.


Not quite, he wants to repair it, so only needs to negotiate how much cash in lieu of damage. He wont be buying it back as he owns it and the ins co never will unless he lets them take it and transfers title.
Oh and ins Cos used to rate salvage value at a persentage of maket value. They routinely under value and over charge for salvage in owner retention cases. Dont accept first offer unless its substantially in your favour.

Posted by: jm2 Mon, 5 Apr 2021 - 15:27
Post #1628371

Are you no longer entitled to have your car returned to the pre-accident state ?

I fear the OP is dealing with the wrong insurance company - he should be dealing with the driver at fault's insurance (if insured). Then, I'm sure my opening line applies.

I'd be asking for the car to be returned (they took it, they can bring it back). Then ask the other insurance to send an assesser round or take on my own management company to deal with it. This process will be far slower, no hire-car option automatically invoked and the OP will have the arrange repairs but may yeild the desired result.

Posted by: TMC Towcester Mon, 5 Apr 2021 - 16:25
Post #1628376

QUOTE (jm2 @ Mon, 5 Apr 2021 - 16:27) *
Are you no longer entitled to have your car returned to the pre-accident state ?

I fear the OP is dealing with the wrong insurance company - he should be dealing with the driver at fault's insurance (if insured). Then, I'm sure my opening line applies.

I'd be asking for the car to be returned (they took it, they can bring it back). Then ask the other insurance to send an assesser round or take on my own management company to deal with it. This process will be far slower, no hire-car option automatically invoked and the OP will have the arrange repairs but may yeild the desired result.


Disagree - he should deal with his own insco (they are his after all) and they battle it out with the 3p.

I don't believe the car has gone yet.

Posted by: thiscantberight Mon, 5 Apr 2021 - 17:38
Post #1628386

Still got the car as we speak ,I have cancelled the collection by the salvage company, although my insurance has not made an offer at this point they did tell me it is “likely” to be written off and I will most likely get an offer in the next few days

The other side insurance did contact me and told me the driver had admitted liability they also and asked for photos of the damage which I sent them but I have herd nothing since

My insurance is on the case and have been as helpful as reasonably expected

Wanted to say thanks to everyone who has replied the advice has been beyond helpful

Posted by: mickR Mon, 5 Apr 2021 - 19:27
Post #1628401

Post back when you have their offer.

Posted by: andy_foster Mon, 5 Apr 2021 - 20:10
Post #1628413

I tend to work on the principle that all insurance companies are crooks trying to rip you (and anyone else that they can) off. If you can avoid claiming through your own insurance company (who are working for themselves, not for you), there is one less bunch of crooks in the chain.

If the at fault party's insurers are sensible, they ought to jump at the chance to deal directly with you, rather than facing fraudulently escalated costs from your insurance company.

N.B. It is technically possible that there might be an insurance company in existence which does not seek to line its own pockets by acting dishonestly or unfairly. If your insurance company is that mythical beast then please disregard my comments above.

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 04:45
Post #1628441

QUOTE (jm2 @ Mon, 5 Apr 2021 - 16:27) *
Are you no longer entitled to have your car returned to the pre-accident state ?.

You never were, so ‘no longer’ was the wrong basis to start the question. If you have a £300 car they don’t have to spend £20,000 repairing it (if needed) even if it’s possible, just make you whole.

As above, just negotiate hard, I’ve kept two cars that were written off by a third party, they will deduct 10% of the cars pre crash value as scarp value that they would have had had they bought the car off you, so if the car was worth £1200 you would get £1080 but that usually a lot less than the car is actually still worth (one was valued at £700, so they deducted £70, I sold it for £250 having removed and sold the stereo, tow bar and a few other specific parts for a total of £140 more).

Posted by: cp8759 Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 09:43
Post #1628466

There is no point going through your own insurance company. If they settle and then chase the third party, they may well recover every penny, but if they don't then it will count as an unrecoverable (i.e. fault in common parlance) claim, and for the increased future premiums it's just not worth it.

Tell your own insurance company not to get involved, and deal directly with the 3rd party. As others have said, come back here when you have their offer. At common law you are entitled to have your car returned to its pre-accident state or the cost of buying a car of a similar age and condition to your car in its pre-accident state, whichever is lower.

andy_foster I have had to disregard your comments.

Posted by: mickR Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 19:42
Post #1628609

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 05:45) *
QUOTE (jm2 @ Mon, 5 Apr 2021 - 16:27) *
Are you no longer entitled to have your car returned to the pre-accident state ?.

You never were, so ‘no longer’ was the wrong basis to start the question. If you have a £300 car they don’t have to spend £20,000 repairing it (if needed) even if it’s possible, just make you whole

Not entirely true. It depends on wether or not not the car is replaceable with an equivalent. I once repared a feista at 3 times the cost of the nearest possible replacement. Due to being a 1 lady owner from new with the most ridiculously low milage. The owner simply said to the insurer get me another exactly like tgat or repair it, they repaired it.

Posted by: cp8759 Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 23:29
Post #1628665

QUOTE (mickR @ Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 20:42) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 05:45) *
QUOTE (jm2 @ Mon, 5 Apr 2021 - 16:27) *
Are you no longer entitled to have your car returned to the pre-accident state ?.

You never were, so ‘no longer’ was the wrong basis to start the question. If you have a £300 car they don’t have to spend £20,000 repairing it (if needed) even if it’s possible, just make you whole

Not entirely true. It depends on wether or not not the car is replaceable with an equivalent. I once repared a feista at 3 times the cost of the nearest possible replacement. Due to being a 1 lady owner from new with the most ridiculously low milage. The owner simply said to the insurer get me another exactly like tgat or repair it, they repaired it.

Well yes, as stated above, at common law you are entitled to have your car returned to its pre-accident state or the cost of buying a car of a similar age and condition to your car in its pre-accident state, whichever is lower.

Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 7 Apr 2021 - 07:13
Post #1628680

QUOTE (mickR @ Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 20:42) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 05:45) *
QUOTE (jm2 @ Mon, 5 Apr 2021 - 16:27) *
Are you no longer entitled to have your car returned to the pre-accident state ?.

You never were, so ‘no longer’ was the wrong basis to start the question. If you have a £300 car they don’t have to spend £20,000 repairing it (if needed) even if it’s possible, just make you whole

Not entirely true. It depends on wether or not not the car is replaceable with an equivalent. I once repared a feista at 3 times the cost of the nearest possible replacement. Due to being a 1 lady owner from new with the most ridiculously low milage. The owner simply said to the insurer get me another exactly like tgat or repair it, they repaired it.

Well your example actually backs my argument up.

Posted by: TMC Towcester Wed, 7 Apr 2021 - 07:44
Post #1628681

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 10:43) *
There is no point going through your own insurance company. If they settle and then chase the third party, they may well recover every penny, but if they don't then it will count as an unrecoverable (i.e. fault in common parlance) claim, and for the increased future premiums it's just not worth it.


Disagree - in this case there seems to be zero issue about liability and the issue is only one of how any settlement will be made and how much for. So, barring a dramatic u-turn there's no sense of the 3P insurer not paying out.

The OP pays their insurer, let them do their job.

Posted by: cp8759 Wed, 7 Apr 2021 - 08:22
Post #1628697

QUOTE (TMC Towcester @ Wed, 7 Apr 2021 - 08:44) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 10:43) *
There is no point going through your own insurance company. If they settle and then chase the third party, they may well recover every penny, but if they don't then it will count as an unrecoverable (i.e. fault in common parlance) claim, and for the increased future premiums it's just not worth it.


Disagree - in this case there seems to be zero issue about liability and the issue is only one of how any settlement will be made and how much for. So, barring a dramatic u-turn there's no sense of the 3P insurer not paying out.

The OP pays their insurer, let them do their job.

That's not how insurance works. If the OP's insurance company pay £1,500 and the third party is only willing to pay £1,200, the OP's insurance company is not going to sue the TP over £300, they'll just recorded as a claim against the OP's policy and be done with it. But the increase in future premiums over 5 years will be a lot more than £300.

Posted by: TMC Towcester Wed, 7 Apr 2021 - 10:23
Post #1628769

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 7 Apr 2021 - 09:22) *
QUOTE (TMC Towcester @ Wed, 7 Apr 2021 - 08:44) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 10:43) *
There is no point going through your own insurance company. If they settle and then chase the third party, they may well recover every penny, but if they don't then it will count as an unrecoverable (i.e. fault in common parlance) claim, and for the increased future premiums it's just not worth it.


Disagree - in this case there seems to be zero issue about liability and the issue is only one of how any settlement will be made and how much for. So, barring a dramatic u-turn there's no sense of the 3P insurer not paying out.

The OP pays their insurer, let them do their job.

That's not how insurance works. If the OP's insurance company pay £1,500 and the third party is only willing to pay £1,200, the OP's insurance company is not going to sue the TP over £300, they'll just recorded as a claim against the OP's policy and be done with it. But the increase in future premiums over 5 years will be a lot more than £300.


Yes 'IF'. Although with MrsTMC managing two no-faults in a week, the premium increase subsequentlywas negligible, both settled via her insurer.

Posted by: mickR Wed, 7 Apr 2021 - 22:35
Post #1628964

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 7 Apr 2021 - 08:13) *
QUOTE (mickR @ Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 20:42) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 05:45) *
QUOTE (jm2 @ Mon, 5 Apr 2021 - 16:27) *
Are you no longer entitled to have your car returned to the pre-accident state ?.

You never were, so ‘no longer’ was the wrong basis to start the question. If you have a £300 car they don’t have to spend £20,000 repairing it (if needed) even if it’s possible, just make you whole

Not entirely true. It depends on wether or not not the car is replaceable with an equivalent. I once repared a feista at 3 times the cost of the nearest possible replacement. Due to being a 1 lady owner from new with the most ridiculously low milage. The owner simply said to the insurer get me another exactly like tgat or repair it, they repaired it.

Well your example actually backs my argument up.


What??? huh.gif how do you work that one out? You said they dont. I i said they do.

Posted by: thiscantberight Thu, 8 Apr 2021 - 10:29
Post #1629024

The insurance made an offer, it was quite fair TBH so have accepted it
A sad end to what was a great car :-(

Posted by: cp8759 Thu, 8 Apr 2021 - 10:39
Post #1629027

QUOTE (thiscantberight @ Thu, 8 Apr 2021 - 11:29) *
The insurance made an offer, it was quite fair TBH so have accepted it
A sad end to what was a great car :-(

So you've agreed to sell the car to them? As you seemed keen on keeping it, can I ask why?

Posted by: Ocelot Thu, 8 Apr 2021 - 11:30
Post #1629040

Someone once went into the back of my car at traffic lights, in a company van. They accepted liability and I was offered an appropriate settlement value for the car after writing it off.

They then offered me the opportunity to buy the car back for £50, repair it, MOT it again and they would continue to insure it (cover went down to 3rd party between the settlement and MOT).

I took up this offer (it was just a dented rear bumper) and continued to use the car for the next 6 years.

Not sure if this is still an option.

Posted by: thiscantberight Thu, 8 Apr 2021 - 11:42
Post #1629043

The car had taken one hell off a whack form behind, the underside of it was crumpled in, it is a Vauxhall on an 08 plate would have cost 1000's to put right and struturaly would never have been the same, if it had just been a new bumper a a spray job I would have gone for it

Posted by: mickR Thu, 8 Apr 2021 - 18:19
Post #1629119

As a matter of i interest can you post some pics of the damage including what you describe as "structural" cheers.

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 13 Apr 2021 - 13:05
Post #1630067

QUOTE (mickR @ Wed, 7 Apr 2021 - 23:35) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 7 Apr 2021 - 08:13) *
QUOTE (mickR @ Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 20:42) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 05:45) *
QUOTE (jm2 @ Mon, 5 Apr 2021 - 16:27) *
Are you no longer entitled to have your car returned to the pre-accident state ?.

You never were, so ‘no longer’ was the wrong basis to start the question. If you have a £300 car they don’t have to spend £20,000 repairing it (if needed) even if it’s possible, just make you whole

Not entirely true. It depends on wether or not not the car is replaceable with an equivalent. I once repared a feista at 3 times the cost of the nearest possible replacement. Due to being a 1 lady owner from new with the most ridiculously low milage. The owner simply said to the insurer get me another exactly like tgat or repair it, they repaired it.

Well your example actually backs my argument up.


What??? huh.gif how do you work that one out? You said they dont. I i said they do.

I said they had to put you back to where you were, normally a similar car is available so they pay you the value, you said there wasn't a similar car available so they fixed it, but that was the only way to put you back to where you were, so yes, you fully agreed with me, thanks.

Posted by: mickR Wed, 14 Apr 2021 - 09:16
Post #1630248

QUOTE
I said they had to put you back to where you were


No you didnt, you said..in reply to jm2

QUOTE ( @ Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 05:45) *
QUOTE (jm2 @ Mon, 5 Apr 2021 - 16:27) *
Are you no longer entitled to have your car returned to the pre-accident state ?

You never were,


Only you can think i agreed with you so well done wink.gif

Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 15 Apr 2021 - 06:24
Post #1630404

I like how you pick half my statement that you think you proved wrong without the other half which shows you didn't, want to try again? I'll bold it again just to help you.

QUOTE
You never were, so ‘no longer’ was the wrong basis to start the question. If you have a £300 car they don’t have to spend £20,000 repairing it (if needed) even if it’s possible, just make you whole

Posted by: mickR Thu, 15 Apr 2021 - 20:54
Post #1630563

QUOTE
just make you whole
??
What does that even mean huh.gif

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 16 Apr 2021 - 06:04
Post #1630581

Put you back to the situation you were before the incident.

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