wasnt the car keeper/owner that parked, wasnt me that parked |
wasnt the car keeper/owner that parked, wasnt me that parked |
Mon, 22 Jan 2018 - 14:21
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 13 Apr 2015 Member No.: 76,738 |
What is the law regarding cases where :
- PCN received - NTK is received - letter saying pay full charge is received - Keeper advises PPC 65 days later that they were not the driver and provides name and valid address of driver - PPC say that Keeper must appeal via their website 1. is there a time limit whereby the owner should notify the PPC of the actual driver? 2. Are they right to ask keeper to appeal? Would that be admission of guilt which is not the real case? 3. How should one proceed from here? PPC is UKPC but this is a generic question thx This post has been edited by grumpyboy: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 - 14:28 |
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Mon, 22 Jan 2018 - 14:21
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Advertise here! |
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Wed, 31 Jan 2018 - 17:41
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#21
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 13 Apr 2015 Member No.: 76,738 |
thx. Does "proceedings" explicitly mean court, or it can mean just the initiation of letters etc
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Wed, 31 Jan 2018 - 17:45
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,898 Joined: 15 Dec 2007 From: South of John O'Groats, north of Cape Town. Member No.: 16,066 |
Are these still generic questions or is there a live case to defend? -------------------- Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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Wed, 31 Jan 2018 - 19:16
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
Proceedings = court claim
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Wed, 31 Jan 2018 - 19:23
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Wed, 31 Jan 2018 - 19:45
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 13 Apr 2015 Member No.: 76,738 |
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Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 00:14
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,898 Joined: 15 Dec 2007 From: South of John O'Groats, north of Cape Town. Member No.: 16,066 |
So what is the purpose of this thread????
-------------------- Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 09:41
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 13 Apr 2015 Member No.: 76,738 |
the purpose was to seek clarification on the original questions asked of which I am grateful
thx to your responses, I am now confident that the keeper has disposed of their liability Since the original ticket was issued 24/11/17, I am now questioning whether even the driver can now be pursued? |
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Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 09:52
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
The driver can always be pursued. The limit would be 6 years.
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Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 09:55
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,985 Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Member No.: 21,992 |
Quote this: Conditions that must be met for purposes of paragraph 4 (this is the right to pursue the keeper for the charge). 5 (1)The first condition is that the creditor— (a) has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but (b) is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver. (2) Sub-paragraph (1)(b) ceases to apply if (at any time after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given) the creditor begins proceedings to recover the unpaid parking charges from the keeper. Explanation: (1) basically means they can pursue the keeper if they (a) have the right to levy a charge against the driver and (b) they do not know the identity and address of the driver. (b) no longer applies if they begin proceedings against the keeper. So, once they begin proceedings against the keeper they only need to fulfil (a) - they have the right to claim a charge against the driver, and not (a) and (b). Clearly, if - at the time they begin proceedings - they DO know the name and address of the driver, then 5(1)(b) becomes invalid, and hence they no longer fulfil the conditions to enforce against the keeper as per paragraph 4. That took me ages and it's not even a live case! -------------------- Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 09:58
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 13 Apr 2015 Member No.: 76,738 |
Quote this: Conditions that must be met for purposes of paragraph 4 (this is the right to pursue the keeper for the charge). 5 (1)The first condition is that the creditor— (a) has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but (b) is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver. (2) Sub-paragraph (1)(b) ceases to apply if (at any time after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given) the creditor begins proceedings to recover the unpaid parking charges from the keeper. Explanation: (1) basically means they can pursue the keeper if they (a) have the right to levy a charge against the driver and (b) they do not know the identity and address of the driver. (b) no longer applies if they begin proceedings against the keeper. So, once they begin proceedings against the keeper they only need to fulfil (a) - they have the right to claim a charge against the driver, and not (a) and (b). Clearly, if - at the time they begin proceedings - they DO know the name and address of the driver, then 5(1)(b) becomes invalid, and hence they no longer fulfil the conditions to enforce against the keeper as per paragraph 4. That took me ages and it's not even a live case! Nevertheless it is still much appreciated ManxRed! |
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Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 12:41
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,985 Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Member No.: 21,992 |
-------------------- Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 13:17
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 13 Apr 2015 Member No.: 76,738 |
Ok update on this one...
I notified PPC of the driver and address. They said i had to talk to debt recovery team that it has been passed to. I dont see why i have to do that if i am not the driver as it is not my debt Can the driver still make representations to the PPC? (they havent even acknowledged him/her as driver yet) |
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 13:34
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
UKPC will say that it's too late to make representations and all he's achieved is confirm that he was the driver
As long as they're chasing you, they're not chasing the person that they could recover a payment from I would do nothing at all and ignore all correspondence from the debt collector If a letter from a solicitor arrives (I think UKPC use SCS Law) tell it to refer to previous correspondence with UKPC No need to add anything else If UKPC does issue a claim, they can't deny knowing the identity of the driver because they've acknowledged receiving the information SCS is set up for a complaint to the Solicitors Regulatory Authority because it's either issued a claim without checking the documents or has done so knowing that you have no liability |
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 14:45
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 13 Apr 2015 Member No.: 76,738 |
ok cool thx
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 15:31
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Keep hold of
1) Your proof you sent the driver, inc date 2) Their response, confirming they have the drivers details. THat way IF they issue a claim, you can counter sue them - complete DPA breach. |
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 16:27
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 13 Apr 2015 Member No.: 76,738 |
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 16:32
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#37
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Yes, make sure they dont get archived etc.
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 16:36
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#38
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
Perfectly good
Leaves UKPC no option except to claim with no evidence that they're forgeries Small Claims court decides the case on the balance of probabilities Are the chances better than 50:50 that you told UKPC the name of the driver ? This post has been edited by Redivi: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 16:36 |
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 16:40
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#39
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 13 Apr 2015 Member No.: 76,738 |
yes. They replied to the email when they referred me to their debt collectors so all good
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Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 16:53
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#40
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
That was actually a rhetorical question
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