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Newham - Car towed away for not being fully within the lines.
Ricotta
post Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 23:18
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Hi everyone,
Last night I drove back from the airport to the place where I live - a converted warehouse in an industrial estate that has recently had road markings added, consisting of double yellow lines and regular non-restricted parking spaces. As there was an event going on, the area was packed, and I was forced to park behind a car which had left an excessive gap between them and car in front, which resulted in roughly 1/5th of my car having to be over the double yellow lines. Those yellow lines do not serve any specific purpose, and indeed cars used to park over them all the time before they redid the road layout.
So, as the title suggests, I found out this morning that my car (which I was planning to move) had been towed away earlier. I was working today so I will head to the pound tomorrow morning and provide the PCN details; so far the Trace website lists the contravention as "Parked in a restricted street".
I expect to be given this form, and any help to draft an appeal would be appreciated.
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post Sun, 16 Jun 2019 - 23:18
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DJ Lexy
post Mon, 17 Jun 2019 - 09:43
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Newham are the most trigger-happy council in Britain when it comes to towing, even for minor things. When you collect your car, you'll pay the full penalty. Then you'll appeal to try and claim as much of it back as possible. The good news is there's no more to pay, so you can appeal as far as you want without it getting worse.

You need to get hold of the photos the council took when the PCN was issued. They'll show how much of your car was over the double yellows.

If it's just your back wheels and nothing more, you might be able to get all the money back with an uphill battle. If it's a bit more of your car, you probably won't see the PCN refunded, but could get the towing fee back based on it being a disproportionate action by the council.
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Ricotta
post Mon, 17 Jun 2019 - 23:07
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So I went to the car pound this morning and paid the £265. The penalty is Contravention code 01 (which is completely wrong as it's a double yellow I was partially parked on, not a single yellow), and I am not able to download any evidence online. Will post all the relevant images later. Should I base my line of defence around the fact that it should've been a Contravention code 24 instead? I will try to find a way to request the evidence as soon as possible.
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Ricotta
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 01:06
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Here's a picture of the PCN:


And here is a scan of the appeal form I was given.
I don't think getting the evidence will be a walk in the park, so if I were to get started drafting a response whilst we wait, what would you roughly have it say?
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stamfordman
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 07:31
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No, 01 is correct for parking on yellow lines.

Are the council's pics still on line? have a look

The proportionality of the tow is in question here certainly, as it often is with Newham. We've had several in Cody Road for dropped kerb contraventions.
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hcandersen
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 07:48
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Can we pl get off this 'disproportionate' angle. It seems to get trotted out too regularly and, as here, before all the facts are known.

The OP was by their own admission parked on DYL for at least 8 hours and stopping another vehicle using the parking place to boot.

If there's an apparently disproportionate action here.......

I'm no defender of over-zealous councils but until I know all the facts I'll keep disproportionality out of the equation.

Rant over.

OP, photos and links that don't require downloading pl.
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cp8759
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 13:12
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Post all the pictures the same way you posted the PCN, nobody is going to follow download links.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Ricotta
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 13:48
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I do not have the pictures yet as Newham doesn't let me download them from the website, I have requested them and am supposed to receive them via post. Trust me I wasn't blocking any vehicle or causing any inconvenience to anyone, only my back wheels were over the double yellow. The PDF is just a scan of the empty appeal form, nothing interesting to see, thought I'd just attach it for the sake of it.
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cp8759
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 17:10
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Unless and until we see the photos we can't really say much. Is the road on google street view? If so, post a link (not a link to a screenshot, a link to the google streetview page). If the restrictions are new it might be worth checking they match the underlying TMO.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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DJ Lexy
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 18:35
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 08:48) *
Can we pl get off this 'disproportionate' angle. It seems to get trotted out too regularly and, as here, before all the facts are known.

Well, yes and no.

There's a difference between parking wholly on double yellows in a busy town centre for 8 hours during the day, and parking slightly on double yellows in a quiet side street for 8 hours overnight. Both probably deserve a PCN, but the latter probably doesn't deserve a tow.

We know the car was parked late at night. We know the PCN was issued at 8AM.

To decide whether the PCN was disproportionate or not, we need to know two things:

a) how much of the car was on the double yellows
b) what time the car was towed

If half the car was on the double yellows and there were a good few hours between the PCN and the tow, then the towing was probably harsh but justifiable.

If a little bit of the car was on the double yellows and the car was lifted half an hour after the PCN was issued, then 'disproportionate' is probably the best angle for getting at least some of the money back - barring any errors on the PCN of course.

We need to see photos and we need to know when the car was towed. This thread will go nowhere until we have that information.
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stamfordman
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 19:00
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This is Cody Road - rich pickings for Newham, especially in the dead of night for its tow truck.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5212331,0.0...6384!8i8192
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Ricotta
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 22:31
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The towing took place at 09:03, 1 hr after the PCN had been issued.

A couple of pictures of the location:


GSW still has the old road layout: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5209228,0.0...6384!8i8192

My car was parked roughly where the white car is in GSW.
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hcandersen
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 07:57
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@DJLexy
and parking slightly on double yellows in a quiet side street for 8 hours overnight.


And a bus route!!! And HGVs.

8 hours is not the issue. The car was still in contravention at 9am, 1 hour after the PCN, so issuing the PCN had not achieved the desired response from the motorist and as far as anyone was concerned the car could have been left all day(s*d 'em, I've got a PCN so I'll leave it all day is an approach we've seen here) so....

And the outdated GSV shows DYL placed in the main opposite bus stops and protecting vehicle crossovers, sight lines and junctions.

Disproportionate...on the basis of what we know and old GSV the only disproportionate action was the OP's.

Happy to be proved wrong with actual photos.

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Ricotta
post Wed, 26 Jun 2019 - 16:20
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Got the evidence:



The towing actually took place less than 40 minutes after the PCN was issued... beyond unreasonable imo.
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cp8759
post Thu, 27 Jun 2019 - 12:56
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The council is entitled to tow 30 minutes after the PCN is served, I don't see any basis to challenge this to be honest. The approach to enforcement might be harsh, even very harsh, but it's not unlawful.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Ricotta
post Tue, 9 Jul 2019 - 17:21
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I'm going to fax them this reply, let me know if there's anything you'd change.

On the 16/06/2019 at around 1 am, I parked my car partially on double yellow lines after coming back from a trip to the airport. I had just attended my grandfather's funeral, and at that point I hadn't slept for almost 40 hours. The street was packed with cars due to a nearby event, and I was planning to move the car fully into the bay in the morning. The very same day, I received a PCN at 08:03 and my vehicle was towed at 08:40. I fully accept the grounds upon which the PCN was issued, and take full responsibility for the contravention, however I believe that the towing was entirely unnecessary and disproportionate. According to Newham's own policy, these are the priorities for towing action to be taken:

Priority One: i) Parked in contravention in a position/location which is prohibited and is causing danger, & serious health and safety implications for other road users or pedestrians. ii) Illegally parked in a formal disabled bay (30 minutes waiting time or 15 minutes if persistent evader *) 

Priority Two: i) Persistent evader (parked in prohibited place) ii) Parked in an operational Bus Lane or at a Bus Stop iii) Vehicle with foreign registration plate (parked in prohibited place) iv) Parked obstructing a dropped footway (on a resident’s request) v) Parked on a footway (parked in a prohibited place) vi) Parked on school Keep Clear Markings* vii) Parked in a Doctors Bay 

Priority Three: i) Parked committing a serious parking contravention (please refer to Appendix B above) 

Priority Four: i) All other contraventions

I fail to see how my car was a priority for Newham's towing services; it was not causing any inconvenience to other vehicles or road users, as the section of double yellow lines I was partially parked on presents the same characteristics as the parking bays adjacent to it: it is parallel to a raised footpath featuring no pedestrian or vehicular crossings. Newham's inconsiderate actions caused me unnecessary distress, and the outrageous towing fee of £200 is way beyond what I can afford to pay.
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cp8759
post Tue, 9 Jul 2019 - 17:29
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Delete the last sentence, this sort of language never helps and is almost always counterproductive.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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