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Logician
Posted on: Yesterday, 18:31


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The insurers state that they are prepared to indemnify the driver in accordance with the Road Traffic Act, which is what is required. That is therefore sufficient and the absence of back-dating presumably means that a few days have been obtained free.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1399507 · Replies: 19 · Views: 1,148

Logician
Posted on: Yesterday, 15:23


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Your defence to the speeding is extremely feeble, basically claiming that the officer carried out a speeding check incompetently when he has probably done the same procedure a hundred times before. The no insurance charge is a different matter, and the prosecution have to rely on what you said to the officer, which unfortunately you cannot remember. If it was a statement that showed you were using the car on business then you are done for, but if it was at all equivocal about the purpose of your journey you might have a chance. I think you might consider having a word with the prosecutor at the case management hearing with a view to pleading guilty to the speeding if the insurance case is dropped. You would only get one lot of points for two offences committed on the same occasion anyway, so a maximum of 6 for the more serious no insurance offence, but for the speeding alone you might get 5 and anyway insurance companies will look less severely on speeding than no insurance.

It might be worth your while to get business use covered on your insurance, it is unlikely to be expensive and would avoid future difficulties of this nature.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1399461 · Replies: 18 · Views: 1,269

Logician
Posted on: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 20:27


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To take your last point first, were these letters correctly addressed to you? If so it seems likely it was slip up by your postman, rather than any failure elsewhere. What happened to your V5C for the vehicle? If the insurance company requested it from you, then they should have dealt with the situation properly and you have a chance of a defence. If you still have it and have not notified the DVLA the vehicle has been scrapped, it really is down to you.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1399247 · Replies: 1 · Views: 210

Logician
Posted on: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 20:21


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The court system and the fixed penalty system have no relationship to each other, they are separate systems entirely, so you need to look only at sentencing guidelines. In a 70 limit, the band of 91 to 100 has a guideline of 4 to 6 points, so interpolating 98 would reasonably be 6 points, 5 would be lucky.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1399244 · Replies: 6 · Views: 357

Logician
Posted on: Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 19:50


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QUOTE (swanseajack2018 @ Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 12:00) *
sorn was HAND DELIVERED to dvla in swansea


Why do that? Do it online and you get an immediate acknowledgement, so you avoid this nonsense. You presumably have no record at all of the hand delivery, and you have to hope that the court believes you hand delivered the form.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1399024 · Replies: 7 · Views: 576

Logician
Posted on: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 19:04


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Obviously the police have an image available that identifies your vehicle, otherwise they would not have been in a position to write to you. The police are not required to prove an offence occurred before being entitled to request the identity of the driver from you, all that is needed is an allegation, so you have successfully shot yourself in the foot. If you are now charged with both speeding and the s.172 offence, and you were driving, you should be able to get the s.172 dropped by agreeing to plead guilty to the speeding.

If you were not driving or the speeding has not been charged, you are likely to be convicted of the s.172 offence as the court is unlikely to accept that you could not work out who was driving at the time. This carries 6 points and a fine of 150% of your net weekly income, plus surcharge of 10% (min £30) and costs with a guideline of £620 if you are found guilty after a trial. Pleading guilty would see a discount of 33% off the fine and costs of £85. Plus increased insurance premiums for five years, as insurers are sensitive to that offence.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1397683 · Replies: 25 · Views: 1,261

Logician
Posted on: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 17:05


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The police probably find it difficult to accept you do not know the name of the previous owner, so if you could find that out you might be of the hook. Did you pay for the car in cash? Any other method would give some clue about the owner. How did you find the car? An advert probably gave a name. Did you make a note somewhere when you arranged to go and see it, look for scraps of paper etc. Possibly the previous owner failed to register the car, so the police do not have his name and are suspicious of you.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1397608 · Replies: 24 · Views: 860

Logician
Posted on: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 10:00


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QUOTE (Dwain @ Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 10:45) *
So, the OP can be subject to a S59 and a speeding ticket? For one offence? He has his vehicle impounded, pays a fee to get it out and then gets procecuted, 3 points and another fine. All for the same offence? I know the law can be daft, but that seems really unfair. Dwain


s.59 is indeed a rather heavy-handed weapon, designed to deter persistent anti-social use of vehicles, and one of the targets is car cruisers. The OP is not really being punished twice for the same offence, although it may seem like it, but for a course of conduct. He received one warning 'a few months back' and is then caught speeding and undertaking on a stretch of road he knows is used by car cruisers and subject to an injunction, so clearly he did not take on board the earlier warning.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1397377 · Replies: 28 · Views: 1,119

Logician
Posted on: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 23:37


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Your friend accepts he was doing 43 in a 30 limit. You were riding together, so even if you were not doing exactly 43, it is unlikely you were within the limit. Your exact speed does not matter, the fixed penalty would be the same. Going to court and arguing that you were doing a speed about 50% lower than your friend when you were travelling together is very unlikely to be successful, and if you are convicted the fine and costs would be many times as much as the fixed penalty. The sensible thing is to accept the fixed penalty.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1397327 · Replies: 33 · Views: 1,559

Logician
Posted on: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 19:36


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For the case to be out of time, the summons you did not receive would have to have been issued in response to an information laid by the police out of time. Have you or your solicitor seen this? Was it in fact a summons as you say or a requisition, which is now more usual?

Any evidence that your car was elsewhere at the time would be useful. Does the other sighting of your car (#2) correspond with your fiancée's route? What damage is alleged to have been caused in this incident, is it plausible that it could have been caused without any corresponding damage to your car? How different is the description of the driver to your fiancée? Did the eye witness in #1 sighting claim to have seen the car hitting something?
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1397273 · Replies: 25 · Views: 2,892

Logician
Posted on: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 17:07


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I think the way it works is that the guys who run the gov.uk website put every effort into simplifying it as much as possible, starting from the DVLA's input. Sometimes they simplify it to the point of inaccuracy, as here, but would no doubt say a full explanation is not really necessary, if a member of the public does it the way we say then they are always on the safe side. Unfortunately for the OP, he has managed to prove that wrong.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1397205 · Replies: 17 · Views: 927

Logician
Posted on: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 16:24


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So far no one seems to have pointed out that a speed of up to 42mph in a 30mph limit is likely to lead to the offer of a speed awareness course if the offence occurred in England or Wales (not Scotland) and the driver has not previously done such a course for an offence committed in the previous three years.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1397178 · Replies: 29 · Views: 1,153

Logician
Posted on: Sun, 8 Jul 2018 - 16:59


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QUOTE (wedged @ Sun, 8 Jul 2018 - 13:55) *
Yes it was taxed by the previous RK/owner during May. I disagree, if that were the case, then the DVLA website would not specifically state "You must tax a vehicle you’ve bought before you drive it, or declare it off the road (a SORN). The tax is not transferred to you when you buy the vehicle." www.gov.uk/sold-bought-vehicle. Note "you’ve bought before you drive it". If you were correct, the car would still be taxed by the original owner for up to 4 weeks while they posted off the V5. In practice, the chances of being caught are quite low, because the databases would still show the car as taxed until the V5 is processed. But I assert that it is the law that the act of sale cancels the tax.


This is an instance where the DVLA are misleading the public about the law, the licence is not cancelled until the DVLA receives the notification. Look up the relevant law.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1396874 · Replies: 17 · Views: 927

Logician
Posted on: Fri, 6 Jul 2018 - 09:54


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There was a Criminal Courts Charge for 9 months in 2015, abolished after great pressure from the Magistrates' Association LINK perhaps there is some confusion with that. Otherwise prosecution costs go to the CPS and fines are paid into the Consolidated Fund.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1396498 · Replies: 31 · Views: 2,023

Logician
Posted on: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 12:00


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In many other countries insurance seems to be much less rigid than here, but in the UK to be properly insured the driver needs to be insured through a UK company, in practice. Therefore your sister-in-law is very unlikely to be covered by her insurance, so unless your insurance covers any driver, which is unlikely, she drove the car uninsured. The corollary is that you permitted her to drive uninsured, which carries the same penalties as driving uninsured yourself. So if you are offered a fixed penalty it will be for 6 points and £300, if it goes to court 6 points are likely (but could be up to 8) and the fine will be income related (100% on one week's net income if you plead guilty, plus 10% surcharge (min £30) plus costs of £85 if you plead guilty.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1396253 · Replies: 6 · Views: 687

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 4 Jul 2018 - 19:16


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QUOTE (Jay2626 @ Wed, 4 Jul 2018 - 20:10) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Wed, 4 Jul 2018 - 13:06) *
QUOTE (Jay2626 @ Wed, 4 Jul 2018 - 13:03) *
It was a conditional offer of fixed penalty But in reality what is the conditional bit?
Either you agree to the conditions (send in DL and pay the penalty) or you choose not to. If you do the matter is concluded. If not the matter goes to court where the penalty will be more severe.
I intend on paying it But out of curiosity people that go to court get more than the 200 fine imposed or 6 points?? Someone else said you faces administrative charge costs But you’re saying people are getting fined more than the above for being caught on a mobile ? Car drivers?


Fixed penalties are fixed, fines in court are related to the offender's income, there is a 10% surcharge (minimum £30) on top of that, and prosecution costs of £85 for a guilty plea or a guideline of £620 if found guilty after a plea of not guilty. The 6 points for mobile use would be the same (technically a disqualification would be possible but vanishingly unlikely)

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1396132 · Replies: 31 · Views: 2,023

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 4 Jul 2018 - 13:38


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The fine is fixed at £100. The licence should certainly be back within eight weeks, they do not even have to do anything with it other than process the fixed penalty.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1396009 · Replies: 5 · Views: 394

Logician
Posted on: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 19:24


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New Judge has said just what I was going to say, I think your case for EH is rather weak. Getting your son through his tests might be useful just now.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1395556 · Replies: 23 · Views: 1,495

Logician
Posted on: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 19:16


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Sorry but what you have said is clearly not a defence and in fact not really mitigation, so there is no point at all in taking it to court. Accepting the fixed penalty is the best thing to do, as it will be both the easiest and cheapest way of dealing with this for you, anything else will be more expensive in money, will not save you points and will produce anxiety for you.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1395553 · Replies: 31 · Views: 2,023

Logician
Posted on: Thu, 28 Jun 2018 - 13:17


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Unfortunately some legal advisors do act as though they were part of the prosecution process, I should content yourself with the thought that actually the bench gave her a fairly big snub by determining to sentence you at the fixed penalty rate despite her best efforts, and very likely complaints have or will be made about her approach, if not in this, then in other cases, by magistrates and defence solicitors. These are likely to be far more effective than a complaint from you, because at the end of the day, you got the best result you could in this case.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1394484 · Replies: 95 · Views: 6,664

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 27 Jun 2018 - 13:23


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QUOTE (peterguk @ Wed, 27 Jun 2018 - 12:58) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Wed, 27 Jun 2018 - 12:41) *
If you firmly believe that you were not speeding during any period of pursuit between your vehicle [or any other vehicle] and the police car, then you can request from the magistrates to state a case for the opinion of the high court. I recollect that you have to do do this within 21 days from your sentencing. However, the clerk to the justices will deal with your request on the magistrates behalf and will undoubtedly deny the request on the grounds that your request is frivolous.
From personal experience high court will cost big £s. £12K+. I got most of my costs back, but system has changed since then.


You can only appeal from the magistrates' court to the High Court or Administrative Court on matters of law, as you did Peter. On matters of fact, which concerns the OP here, the appeal is to the Crown Court where a panel of a judge and two magistrates hear the case from the beginning, as described above.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1394161 · Replies: 22 · Views: 1,460

Logician
Posted on: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 - 23:06


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QUOTE (donnyboy156 @ Mon, 25 Jun 2018 - 23:22) *
And how would I avoid conviction? And I did originally ask for any help with mitigation ideas, and have so far not really received anything. 'Avoiding Conviction' is obvious, in any circumstance in life, the question is how. I've read many different web pages stating the court has the discretion to give you less than 3 points, or a ban. And you can make a case for financial hardship if you use the car for work etc. The above replies imply none of this is a possibility.


The court cannot go below 3 points unless it finds special reasons not to endorse your licence, which would only apply in very special circumstances, which you give no indication might apply here. Exceptional hardship applies specifically when you are facing a 6 months disqualification after accumulating 12 or more points, which does not apply to you. If you did find any mitigation, which so far does not seem likely, in your circumstances it would only serve to reduce the financial penalty. I do not think we can really help you, because you need to avoid a conviction which the circumstances make unlikely. To be brutally frank, you are the sort of new driver these provisions were aimed at, in that you have repeatedly been caught speeding, apparently not having learnt the lesson. To be clear, you will not be disqualified, the DVLA will revoke your licence, but you can get a new licence as soon as your pass your tests again, to prove you can drive within the law. After getting to 6 points you can continue to drive until the DVLA contact you.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1393775 · Replies: 26 · Views: 1,192

Logician
Posted on: Sun, 24 Jun 2018 - 22:56


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So have you accepted one fixed penalty for the 2nd offence, and opted to go to court for the 3rd to try to avoid getting another 3 points using those excuses?
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1393441 · Replies: 26 · Views: 1,192

Logician
Posted on: Sun, 24 Jun 2018 - 22:49


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People sometimes change the address on their driving licence and think that will work for the car as well, but it does not. Ask if he has anything after those letters and check his licence on https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence to see if anything has happened without his knowledge.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1393439 · Replies: 4 · Views: 454

Logician
Posted on: Sun, 24 Jun 2018 - 22:30


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To start with, it would be very much better if you brother posted here himself, our experience is that when we ask questions of someone other than the motorist concerned we get replies which the poster THINKS are correct but turn out to be mistaken.

We need to know what you mean by 'speeding tickets' that could refer to a number of things, but what should happen, if a driver was not stopped at the time, the registered keeper of the vehicle receives a Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP), which also asks him to name the driver. This has to be delivered within 14 days, and if what your brother has received are NIPs, and he is the registered keeper, the likelihood is that he has changed his address or his car and the V5C of the car (aka the logbook) did not show his correct name and address when the police checked the DVLA records, and they managed to trace him only after the event.

If he did receive 3 NIPs a few months ago, as you say, and failed to reply to them, he is in serious trouble, because failing to respond with details of the driver within 28 days is an offence which itself carries 6 points and a large fine. You therefore need to find out what the situation is, and preferably get him to post here himself. If he is in the habit of ignoring official communications, he may have ignored a requisition to court and been convicted in his absence. It is quite possible he has already been disqualified.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1393437 · Replies: 4 · Views: 454

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