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SIP Parking Charge Notice
h3lp
post Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 15:35
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Hi All,

One of our commercial vehicles received a parking ticket in the Royal William Yard in Plymouth recently.

We were unloading at the time on double yellow lines. There were no loading restrictions in force.

We were not causing an obstruction.

There were no free spaces near the entrance the site into which we were unloading.

The SIP operative issued the ticket onto our vehicle.

We have not disclosed who was the driver although we are now at the third party appeal stage (www.theias.org) and SIP have declared "The appellant was the driver."

I've copied and pasted our correspondence below, but I was wondering what my next step should be as I've heard you can't just ignore private tickets anymore?

During the alleged offence our vehicle (commercial light goods vehicle) was carrying out unloading. If the parking attendant had waited with the vehicle he would have seen multiple trips were being made to the vehicle to unload.

The vehicle was unloading in an area with no signs stating any loading restrictions whatsoever.

The vehicle was not causing an obstruction.

The parking firm have made no response regarding the act of unloading when I appealed.

I have uploaded supporting evidence that we were unloading to ***** at the time of the alleged offence, as we have done for several years before this firm took over the carpark.


Their reply :

The Operator Reported That...

The appellant was the driver.
The appellant was the keeper.
A manual ticket was placed on the vehicle.
The ticket was issued on 29/09/2017.
The charge is based in Contract.

The Operator Made The Following Comments...

The terms of parking are clear that vehicles must not park on double yellow lines, as can be clearly seen from the photographs the vehicle was parked on double yellow lines and as such is liable for a PCN in line with the contractual signage. It is irrelevant whether the driver claims to be loading as this is not a designated loading bay.


Thanks for any help offered.
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post Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 15:35
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cabbyman
post Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 15:53
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Who is the appellant? Company or individual?


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h3lp
post Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 17:28
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They stuck the ticket on the van so it hasn't been formally addressed to anyone I don't think.

The van is a company van anyway.

At the top of the appeal page it says :

You reported that you were the registered keeper but is not prepared to state who was driving at the time the parking charge was issued.

You reported that you are not being held liable for the parking charge.
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cabbyman
post Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 17:42
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Is the company the RK?

Have the letters been written in the name of the company or an individual?

There is a gaping hole in their argument.

IF the 'appellant' was the company and the company is the keeper, how did their operative identify the company as the driver?


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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 21:46
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No one appeals to the ias.

Waste of time and possibly harmful

Loading and unloading are not being parked. TMA2004 defines this quite clearly (hence no stopping at all is red lines on a road)
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h3lp
post Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 09:07
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Thanks guys,

There haven't been any letters as such and therefore nothing has been formally addressed to any person or company (just a ticket stuck on the windscreen of the van).

What should I be doing at this stage (IAS appeal).

Should I just write in response something like :

We don't know who was driving the vehicle as it's registered to our company with multiple drivers. Your assumption that "the appellant was the driver" is unfounded and not proveable.

Also loading and unloading do not constitute being "parked" as defined by TMA2004.

Please do not contact me about this matter again.


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ostell
post Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 09:46
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No to IAS appeal, I presume you mean IPC appeal.

You could add that their assumption of the registered keeper is the driver is completely vexatious as it is impossible for a body corporate to be driving.
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h3lp
post Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 09:57
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Thanks ostell,

What do you mean by No to IAS appeal? We are currently appealing with IAS (www.theias.org) under the recommendation of the parking company.
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ostell
post Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 10:27
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As per all the advice on this forum you do not appeal to the IAS. Why do you think the parking company recommend it? The IAS will reject any appeals and the appeal is looked at by the same solicitors that will then take you to court.
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cabbyman
post Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 17:22
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IAS guarantee to reject 75-80% of appeals.

Don't do anything until you receive the NtK, then a simple appeal advising that they have failed to meet the requirements of PoFA sched 4 para 8 and must therefore pursue the driver, who you are not required to name. Whilst writing, please bear in mind that it is impossible for a company to have been the driver.

DON'T say it's impossible to identify the driver. Just leave them in the dark about the driver's ID.


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h3lp
post Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 20:34
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That's great thank you.

So should I just abandon the IAS appeal and ignore all further correspondence until I receive the NtK?

Or is it worth me mentioning the points you've raised in the hope they realise they are going to lose if they pursue it further?
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ostell
post Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 21:04
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I don't quite understand when you are saying you are appealing to the IAS, You have to appeal to the parking company first before any IAS appeal (not recommended!) can be made. Have you already appealed to SIP?

If not wait for the NTK and see what they get wrong on that.
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h3lp
post Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 08:14
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OK sorry let me clarify the order of events

1) ticket placed on our van

2) we appealed to SIP which they rejected and said the next step is to appeal IAS

3) we appealed to IAS and SIP replied to our appeal with the points I've posted above.
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ManxRed
post Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 08:40
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OK, number three was a minor error, but you weren't to know. I suspect your appeal is still pending, and you've received SIP's rebuttal to the IAS appeal. You'll lose that appeal. Everyone does, the IAS is not independent at all.

Although they may use your IAS loss against you in a potential court claim, it's not too difficult to beat these IPC companies in a court claim.

Ignore any debt collection begging letters, but come back if you get a Letter Before Claim from a solicitors (possibly Gladstones, who you'll be relieved to know are inept) or a court claim form.


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h3lp
post Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 13:17
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OK cheers.

So should i enter any other response to the IAS appeal as it's still open and ongoing?

Is it worth me stating what I plan on being my defence should it go to court in the attempt of just quashing it now?
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cabbyman
post Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 16:40
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Ignore from now on, until you get LBA.


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h3lp
post Fri, 13 Oct 2017 - 18:10
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OK I'll ignore it.

Just to be clear, what are the likely chain of events from this point onwards? Is it likely that I'll end up having to defend my case in court?
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h3lp
post Sun, 29 Oct 2017 - 10:09
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Thanks for those that contributed - IAS upheld the appeal for reasons I didn't even consider -

"While noting the Operator's prima facie case, the contravention images do not appear to show any contractual signage in the vicinity of the Appellant's vehicle and I note that the Operator has not provided either a site map nor site images to assist me further.

On the evidence presented to this appeal I cannot be content that the driver was made adequately aware of the terms and conditions of parking on this occasion and accordingly I must allow this appeal."
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ostell
post Sun, 29 Oct 2017 - 10:57
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Well that's a turn up for the books ! It must have been your turn to be drawn out of the hat for the accepted appeal this month. Or there's a new assessor who they haven't trained properly
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cabbyman
post Sun, 29 Oct 2017 - 13:01
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What was your appeal to IAS, verbatim?

You have achieved the nearly impossible; winning an appeal to Gladstones!


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