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UK Car Park Management - Parking Charge Notice, Split from hijacked thread & merged
biker1
post Thu, 31 Aug 2017 - 20:26
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Sorry to revive such an old topic, however I am shocked and annoyed to see this company made it big 2017.... they issued me with a ticket and I am not even required to display a parking permit (based on my contract).... What the heck is this? Not sure if the guy is around but did he manage to shut them down or what happened next? do I just ignore this invoice and move on?
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post Thu, 31 Aug 2017 - 20:26
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cabbyman
post Thu, 31 Aug 2017 - 20:33
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Everything has changed since this case was started.

Start your own thread if you require advice.

One case, one thread.


--------------------
Cabbyman 8 PPCs 0
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biker1
post Thu, 31 Aug 2017 - 22:12
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Hi there,



After reading a topic on the forums which is very similar to the invoice which I got for my car, so my problem started when I parked my car in my sister's parking bay (Assigned to her apartment and even says so in the lease).... she moved into the area recently... so I went up to carry her stuff and bring the parking permit (she is pregnant and slow so I can't make her run), anyways by the time I went down stairs I found the invoice/ticket already waiting for me on the windscreen.

So the first thing I did, was to drive back home and told my sister about it before leaving. She then contacted them and explained the issue.... without a warning or any sort of help, they asked her to go online or pay then they hung up. Now I tried looking online everywhere, there is no link to appeal or to contact them to sort it out. They legit have nothing useful on the website but to force you paying.

One more thing, in the apartment lease.... it says nothing about parking permit or you have to display anything to park in your parking bay. It only states the number of that parking bay and that you are allowed to use it.

Do I ignore it as many other sites/forums say? What is the deal here? What do I do?

Thanks all.

This post has been edited by biker1: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 15:32
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ostell
post Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 07:11
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You have an even stronger case as it involved a space that was demised to your sister in the lease. Have a read of this link. It provides some very interesting court cases.

Edit you post so that the driver cannot be identified.

Two ways to handle this. A further written appeal towards the end of the period allowed on the windscreen ticket, from your sister including a copy of the relevant parts of the lease showing the parking space demised to her and telling them they had no authority to operate on her land. This way they may forget to send a notice to keeper to the registered keeper of the car. It needs to be received within days 28 and 56 after the event. If they forget they can then only go after the driver, who they do not know. Edit your first post so that the identity of the drive cannot be inferred.

Second is to just wait for the Notice to Keeper to arrive and then appeal for the keeper on basically the same basis, ie no authority to operate on that land. This has the added advantage that you can threaten them with misuse of your personal data by retrieving your details from the DVLA whilst knowing that they had no authority to operate on that space.


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ostell
post Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 07:33
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So lets have details. Windscreen ticket, NTK, residential parking?
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biker1
post Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 15:36
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QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 08:11) *
You have an even stronger case as it involved a space that was demised to your sister in the lease. Have a read of this link. It provides some very interesting court cases.

Edit you post so that the driver cannot be identified.

Two ways to handle this. A further written appeal towards the end of the period allowed on the windscreen ticket, from your sister including a copy of the relevant parts of the lease showing the parking space demised to her and telling them they had no authority to operate on her land. This way they may forget to send a notice to keeper to the registered keeper of the car. It needs to be received within days 28 and 56 after the event. If they forget they can then only go after the driver, who they do not know. Edit your first post so that the identity of the drive cannot be inferred.

Second is to just wait for the Notice to Keeper to arrive and then appeal for the keeper on basically the same basis, ie no authority to operate on that land. This has the added advantage that you can threaten them with misuse of your personal data by retrieving your details from the DVLA whilst knowing that they had no authority to operate on that space.



As I did not state names / details... not sure what to edit? also do you want me to post a copy of the invoice with my details covered? and last but not least, so I just wait for them to send her a notice to keeper or will they actually find me via DVLA system?

Are they authorised to do that now ?? they seem to have access through the gates as well, meaning they can enter the bottom of the building to access parking bay, also some CCTV installed etc.
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Dave65
post Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 15:51
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There is inference refer only to "the driver"
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ostell
post Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 17:18
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If the car is yours then they will get your details from the DVLA and send you a Notice to Keeper. Your sister will not /can not get one

If your sister writes close to the end of their appeal period they may think they don't have to pay to get the details from the DVLA and respond to her thinking she is the keeper. (Don't Lie !). Then your sister plays letter ping pong with them for 56 days and the NTK is not sent then they have no one to hold liable. Your sister then tells them to do one as she was not the driver or the keeper. It's happened before.

Or you wait till you get the NTK. after day 28
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biker1
post Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 12:38
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QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 18:18) *
If the car is yours then they will get your details from the DVLA and send you a Notice to Keeper. Your sister will not /can not get one

If your sister writes close to the end of their appeal period they may think they don't have to pay to get the details from the DVLA and respond to her thinking she is the keeper. (Don't Lie !). Then your sister plays letter ping pong with them for 56 days and the NTK is not sent then they have no one to hold liable. Your sister then tells them to do one as she was not the driver or the keeper. It's happened before.

Or you wait till you get the NTK. after day 28


The question is, who does she write to? Since there is no contact details besides the phone number and an address for taking payments.

I also had a look at the lease, it seems like there is nowhere at all there is a mention of display to park and clearly states that I can use the parking bay without any points or restrictions. It even states the bay number.

I also checked each and every vehicle in the other parking bays, legit not a single one of them is displaying a parking permit on their cars and they park there daily lol like what is going on? am I getting randomly targeted?
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ostell
post Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 12:55
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That lease is the get out. It is your sisters land and the parking company do not have her permission to operate from her land.

Write to the address given on the ticket, and get free proof of postage from the post office.

Just state that they have no authority to opeerate on her land, her lease takes precedence, she has no need agree to a contract for parking with a third party who is a stranger to the lease when she already has the right to park. Quote the references to the court cases you found. You will find details around the forum. Post here first for critique.
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biker1
post Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 20:04
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Hi there,

So after my sister tried to appeal on my behalf and explain they have no business to even issue the PCN, since based on her lease the company does not exist or there is nowhere for us to say you have to display a thing or permit to park in the parking bay.

I have also received the 21 notice with the ground to appeal and a website or pay what is now £100 lol

Any advice? should I contact them at all? or just take it for a formal appeal on the website mentioned on the reminder?

They got my information from the DVLA and they told my sister, she is not allowed to appeal on my behalf and that the driver has to provide all the information including name and address to appeal directly. Also they use such a scare technique to try and force me to pay ASAP.

Any advice now please?
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 22:00
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So, your sister gave details, or this is information from the dvla? Hard to tell from that jumble.

Driver never appeals. Keeper does. If they have given the keeper chanc3 to appeal , use it.

Do NOT think they will accept it. No scare tactics can work, as your research will have told you what to expect.
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biker1
post Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 23:23
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 23:00) *
So, your sister gave details, or this is information from the dvla? Hard to tell from that jumble.

Driver never appeals. Keeper does. If they have given the keeper chanc3 to appeal , use it.

Do NOT think they will accept it. No scare tactics can work, as your research will have told you what to expect.


Sorry for the confusion, they asked for the keeper to appeal in the latest notice/reminder, they even put a website to use for claim etc. so should I just use that website? then use the lease card to try and win it?

Honestly they are just messing about and want people to pay, btw sometimes people use her parking pay without her permission or permits, where are they then? like what heck?
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 23:30
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Why do you think the lease will “win” it at this stage?

Ppc
Do
Not
Accept
Appeals


That’s the general rule to follow here.

That also doesn’t mean pay up either.
You’re just showing to any future court, if that ever happens, tha the ppc knew full well the leaseholder gave permission for the vehicle t9 be there, and that trumps anything the ppc say otherwise.

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 23:31
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biker1
post Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 21:52
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 00:30) *
Why do you think the lease will “win” it at this stage?

Ppc
Do
Not
Accept
Appeals


That’s the general rule to follow here.

That also doesn’t mean pay up either.
You’re just showing to any future court, if that ever happens, tha the ppc knew full well the leaseholder gave permission for the vehicle t9 be there, and that trumps anything the ppc say otherwise.


So do you reckon we can just wait and hope for the best at this point? They are clearly asking "The Keeper" to appeal and no one else which is odd, also they claim if we don't pay they will increase it further until I decide to take them to court.... Not sure if that is right or what.... so far it is all confusing to me and does not make sense. I just wanted to know, if I should go ahead and try to appeal via popla or any other place? or just sit tight and hope they take it further instead which I don't think they will, do you think they will enforce debt collectors?

Thanks again.
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nosferatu1001
post Sat, 14 Oct 2017 - 18:14
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They take you to court, not the other way around

You appeal to popla once they reject you
Post your appeal here for critique having first done some research. MSE newbies thread is a good start.

Debt collectors have absolutely no powers whatsoever.
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biker1
post Sat, 14 Oct 2017 - 20:57
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After reading so much about the appeals and how to go against them, I came across some decent guides.

On moneysavingexpert, there is a guide which suggests that I would write a letter copying the following template:

Dear {name of IPC member - only IPC members for this version!!!}

Re PCN number:

I am the keeper of the vehicle and am aware of your purported 'parking charge'. The driver will not be identified. I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

1. Who is the party that contracted with your company and are they the landowner?
2. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
3. Please provide photos of the signs that you say were on site, which you contend formed a contract with the driver.
4. Please provide all photographs taken of this vehicle.
5. Please provide proof that the timing of any camera or timer used was synchronised with all other cameras and/or systems & machines.

Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs, which would be a thinly-veiled attempt at 'double recovery'. I will not respond to debt collectors and to involve a third party would be a failure to mitigate your costs as well as deliberate and knowing misuse of my data.

Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause (e.g. if you do not fully comply with the IPC Code of Practice in terms of signage at this site, as seems likely based on my research) please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me. I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle.

I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,



As a first stage and post it to them, keep in mind they will most likely reject and ask me to appeal using theIAS.org (as mentioned in the latest notice titled: FORMAL DEMANAD, DO NOT IGNORE THIS NOTICE) with the keeper's details (who is my brother instead of me the driver).

So should I email them or should I use that IAS site they provided? on the other forums they say IAS is a joke and popla is the only winning one around... any advice?
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ostell
post Sat, 14 Oct 2017 - 21:41
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So you must know that the driver should NEVER be identified. Look at the penultimate sentence in your last post.

You never appeal to the IAS. Your appeal will be rejected.
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biker1
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 22:31
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I should have made my own topic indeed, not sure if its too late but I wanted to post an update about the issue.

So I went as far as ignoring all the debit collectors letters, now I have received a letter from "Gladstones Solicitors" to try and pressure me to pay asap and that I have 14 days to do so.

All they do is include few examples of someone loosing their case and that they had to pay full payments plus court fees etc.

Any advice at this case? want me to post a scanned copy of this letter? or do I need to wait for any court forms / paper?

Thanks.
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Redivi
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 22:41
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Check if the Gladstones letter is genuine

If it asks you to pay the debt collector and has the same reference number, Gladstones didn't send it and it can be ignored

If it has a reference number in the format 1*****.*** it's a genuine Gladstones letter :

Dear Sir

Ref ****

I deny any debt to UK Car Park Management

When you send a properly formatted Letter Before Claim in accordance with the Pre-action Protocol for Debt Claims, I will provide a detailed response
I will also inform you of the information and documents I require from your client

Yours Faithfully

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