PCN from PCS Maidstone - Newbie post (sorry), Next step advice please Options

[FlyingJohn]

So I admit the driver parked here for less than one minute in parking bay behind tesco express to buy a paper and got back and had a charge notice.



I took advice from this forum and sent them a letter by email and their on-line service saying:-

With Reference to PCN xxxxxx


I have no knowledge of this and dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

- If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

- in all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,

etc.

They have replied with:-
Thank you for your email regarding the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

Please find attached the photographic evidence as requested.

If you would like to appeal the PCN after reviewing the evidence, you can do this via any of the methods detailed on our original correspondence, or by replying directly to this email.

Alternatively, payment of the outstanding balance of £120.00 can be made using any of the below methods.

Please note that your appeal/payment must be received within the timeframe detailed on our notice.

and an image of my car at one single time and a photo of their sign.




So I am not really sure what to do as there is SO much information on the forum its very hard to pick out the best course of action now.

Do I now ignore ?

Do I write and refuse to name the driver ?

Do I make an appeal - if so to who and is there a template I can modify

Should they have taken two pictures with a time interval - Thye driver really was there for a minute.


Please help - I suspect others have asked same but most postings I read say post your individual circumstances to get the best advice.






This post has been edited by FlyingJohn: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 - 21:00

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[Zydeco]

Quick thoughts, wait for the experts. The NTK fails pofa completely. It's seems to be from a debt collector rather than the ppc.
The signage says parking in 'blue' bays free for 2 hrs but the map doesn't show them.
Best of all the signage says £100 charge so why are they asking for £120?
Last thought, the address of the parking Co. is a po box. Naughty.

[Redivi]

It fails to say it (illegally) on the Notice but Parking Collection Services is a trading name of Debt Recovery Plus, an irritating but completely ignorable debt collection agent
That's where the extra £20 has been added

Why should anyone be expected to send a cheque to a company that has a fake name and no physical address ?

Its website also has the wrong company registration number
This belongs to a company called Detroit I 2018 Ltd, previously known as Parking Collection Services Ltd

The 2015 accounts say that the company ceased to trade in 2010 (I think there was activity until at least a year later) and was struck off the register in February this year
They also include a note that PCS Ltd would continue to be used as a trading name by DRP Ltd
I'm not an expert on Company Law but even I know that you can't use one Limited company as a trading name for another

The Notice makes no pretence that POFA applies

It does, however, claim that AM Parking Services is operating in accordance with the BPA Code of Practice
If a charge is added before the Notice to Keeper is sent, this is obviously untrue
The failure to comply with the Code also means that AM Parking Services cannot recover the payment in court

I would therefore complain to the BPA about the actions of both companies

The sign also says that AM Services will contact the DVLA for the keeper details
Ask the DVLA who did make the enquiry

[ostell]

Oh Dear, Parking Collection Services is a trading name of Debt Recovery Plus, and that is is a familiar name on here, a mere debt collector. Edit: They are not using the Ltd in the name so it is a valid t/a.

Edit your post so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred. Use "the driver....." etc.

Would be interesting to know the dates.

However, hoping that the required phrase is not on the reverse:

Dear Sirs,

With reference to Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx that you sent me and your response to my previous letter.

I note that in the picture of the sign that was allegedly present that the driver is alleged to have entered a contract with a company called AM Parking Services Ltd and would you therefore explain to me why you believe that your invoice is valid and why the amount claimed is now £120.

That aside your Notice failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc



There are 2 signs at the location, the second one has a different name at the top. how is one to know which is the applicable signs.

This will be rejected but you should get a POPLA code and a POFA fail at POPLA should win.

This post has been edited by ostell: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 - 08:24

[Jo Carn]

If you haven't sent the letter also add that the charge is for PARKING, not for finding a parking space and not for purchasing a ticket getting back into the car and finding a parking space. Nor is it for driving from your parking space to the exit. Don't you think that would take at least a minute. Ask them for evidence of how long you were parked for - not how long you were in the car park.

[FlyingJohn]

Thankyou so far for all the help.
The alleged parking was 7th Dec 2018
The first letter was 3rd April 2019
The reply was sent 6th April
Their reply 17th April 2019

I dont really understand Jo's post about adding the charge is for parking. The car bays are not in an actual car park but a collection of bays around the shops (Tesco, Domino's, Fishn n chips, Charity shop etc) in the road behind. You really cannot tell whether its legitimate to or not to park there. There is a sign on the front of tescos, saying park round the back in the road and where you see private parking bay then the interpretation is parking for users of the shops - why wouldn't you ?

But the timing part seems valid. Whoever stuck the notice on the screen (which wasn't attached when the driver got back to the car - was it just there for the photo and removed) - must have been in waiting for anyone to come along and as soon as the car was left , they must have pounced. Out of interest I timed it today - it takes 17 seconds to walk to the door of the shop, 23 seconds to choose and pay at the self checkout and 17seconds to return to the car !!!

This post has been edited by FlyingJohn: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 - 22:22

[ostell]

You are ignoring the requests to edit so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred. You may be snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory.

So the driver had an alleged ticket on the windscreen. Not unknown for a ghost ticket, increases revenues.

With a windscreen ticket, even alleged, the notice to keeper has to be delivered between days 28 and 56 to be able to hold the keeper liable. Change the POFA reference to 8 (2) (f) and add in that they have also failed to deliver the notice within the relevant period as required by 8 (4)

[FlyingJohn]

Sorry - I don't know what else to edit out - please tell as I can't see how I make any driver inferences now in my OP after 1st edit.

When you say

With a windscreen ticket, even alleged, the notice to keeper has to be delivered between days 28 and 56 to be able to hold the keeper liable.

Should I just reply to their latest email saying the Notice to Keeper is outiside these 28 - 56 day rules and leave it at that ? Or should I still send the whole thing as you already recommended with your other advice "Change the POFA reference to 8 (2) (f) and add in that they have also failed to deliver the notice within the relevant period as required by 8 (4)"

Thankyou
FJ

[ostell]

look at post #6

Dear Sirs,

With reference to Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx that you sent me and your response to my previous letter.

I note that in the picture of the sign that was allegedly present that the driver is alleged to have entered a contract with a company called AM Parking Services Ltd and would you therefore explain to me why you believe that your invoice is valid and why the amount claimed is now £120.

That aside your Notice failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 8 (2) (f) of the Act.

You have also failed to comply by failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 28 - 56 days as prescribed by section 8 (4) of the Act.

You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc



This post has been edited by ostell: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 - 21:25

[FlyingJohn]

o.k thankyou

[FlyingJohn]

Just to say thankyou for the advice received here - and feedback is important - I got this today from PCS.

Thank you for your email regarding the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

After carefully considering the case, we have cancelled the above parking charge on this occasion. I have noted our records to ensure that we do not send any further letters about this parking charge.

Kind Regards



JOB DONE :-))