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Private Resident. Sorn car clamped in carpark. Need advice
emilepietersen
post Wed, 28 Mar 2012 - 22:05
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Hi All

I'm grateful for finding this platform. I'll try and be as brief as possible.

My 2nd car was clamped in our private car park at our block of flats on Saturday past (we have extra bays that are always empty). It was declared SORN and I displayed the SORN papers together with my details on the dash. It was parked there for almost 4 months with no incident. We need to display permits. We didnt have ours displayed. We thought that it would be fine with the SORN papers and that they would call to verify before clamping.

Our other car parks in our allocated bay and doesnt need a permit displayed. The permit that should have been displayed in the 2nd car we kept for visitors. Again we thought SORN papers and our details displayed would be fine.

A freind alerted us that they were clamping the car on Sat. I went out and explained the situation and took my permit just in case. The clamper said that there was no permit at the time and he wasnt going to budge. At that point the tow away truck was on its way already. The clamper just sat in his car and waited for them to turn up.

I called the number of the clamping company he worked for which was on the warning sign that was clearly displayed in the car park. The guy on the phone wasnt helpful and kept urging me to pay the fine as we were clearly in the wrong. I didnt pay and hung up. I continued pleading with the clamper in the car and pointed out that the car was SORN and parked there for ages. Why did they clamp me now?? He said that one of his colleagues said our car wasnt there a week before. As I asid, the car was parked there for almost 4 months. He didnt want to give me the name of his colleague. He also said that I can appeal but after payment or I can sign over the car to them at there office. At that point I left the situation. The truck came and towed it away.

I get the feeling my wife and I have no case. sad.gif

As renting residents, what are our chance of getting our car back without paying the release fee? Secondly, the car is worth maybe £200 and needs lots of work done. It might just be easier signing it over. What are the rules regarding this and will it free us from the charges that are accumulating? I called them today to enquire about signing it over but I could tell they were trying to steer me away from that.

Cheers guys
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post Wed, 28 Mar 2012 - 22:05
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hbkidf
post Wed, 28 Mar 2012 - 22:22
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Of course you have a case. PPC's have as much right to tow away your car as you do of fining them for breathing your air.

If you don't want to pay the release fee, you can take out an injunction on your car.

This post has been edited by hbkidf: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 - 22:28
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emilepietersen
post Wed, 28 Mar 2012 - 22:36
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Thanks for your reply. Sorry, I'm really not clued up. How do I go about doing that? Also, as I said, the car's value is way below the release fee. Are they obliged to accept my offer of taking the car? What if there is a stalemate situation?

This post has been edited by emilepietersen: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 - 22:45
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hbkidf
post Wed, 28 Mar 2012 - 22:49
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I'm not au fait with it all and the injunction does cost a bit. From what I've read on here there is the possibility they will transfer the name in to theirs and effectively seize your car.

But the more experienced heads will be able to help you out. The reply might have to wait until tomorrow but you will get an answer from someone here.
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emilepietersen
post Wed, 28 Mar 2012 - 22:53
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Thank You hbkidf!
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Gan
post Wed, 28 Mar 2012 - 22:55
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Whether you pay the clamper or take out an injunction it's still going to cost a couple of £00 that you will have great difficulty getting back.

If they've taken the car, DVLA will let them register it anyway because they are "the keeper"

I'd be inclined to make some mischief for the company. Fill in the V5 transfer and send it to DVLA yourself. Keep copies and send recorded delivery.

Put it in the name of a company director or the clamper personally. Let him get a surprise from the DVLA when he fails to lift the SORN


This post has been edited by Gan: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 - 22:57
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Pinback
post Wed, 28 Mar 2012 - 23:34
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Hmm then could you send them a sales invoice for the car?


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albert2008
post Thu, 29 Mar 2012 - 07:21
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strip it of all worth while parts,

mate put grinding paste in his company car engine when they made him redundant,

This post has been edited by albert2008: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 - 07:23
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emilepietersen
post Thu, 29 Mar 2012 - 08:01
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QUOTE (Gan @ Wed, 28 Mar 2012 - 23:55) *
Whether you pay the clamper or take out an injunction it's still going to cost a couple of £00 that you will have great difficulty getting back.

If they've taken the car, DVLA will let them register it anyway because they are "the keeper"

I'd be inclined to make some mischief for the company. Fill in the V5 transfer and send it to DVLA yourself. Keep copies and send recorded delivery.

Put it in the name of a company director or the clamper personally. Let him get a surprise from the DVLA when he fails to lift the SORN


Really. So they can now become the registered keepers if they apply to do so. How can that be possible? BTW the company is Axis Parking aka Direct Parking.
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Gan
post Thu, 29 Mar 2012 - 08:22
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We all learnt something a few weeks ago in another thread

We've known for some time about a couple of companies that have registered cars they towed and sold them.

Most have us have always understood that if a company with no papers applies for registration documents, DVLA will write to the current keeper and only transfer if the registration if OK or no reply.

On this occasion the OP told the DVLA that it was not OK and received a letter that it would be transferred anyway because they were only interested in who was keeping it, not the owner. The OP was in the process of obtaining an injunction for its return and I don't know what happened afterward.

This would be a much better scandal about DVLA relationships with disreputable parties for Watchdog to investigate than just the release of keeper details.

What are the full and exact details (including any Ltd and address) of the companies you call Axis Parking and Direct Parking ?
I sense an attempt to deliberately be confusing.
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emilepietersen
post Thu, 29 Mar 2012 - 08:50
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Thanks Gan. When I called Axis Parking Control Ltd (on our parking board) yesterday about my options, they said they dont always accept the car just being signed over. Sounds to me like thsy dont really want to own the car (old banger). The release fee will be much more valuable to them! Also said that I would have to come in to their offices if i were to consider signing over.
I took down details of office whereabouts and he said that I would see a sign for Park Direct Ltd (not Axis):

Park Direct Ltd.
Unit 7 Tomo Estate
Packet Boat Lane
Uxbridge
Middlesex
UB8 2JP

Thanks. I know it seems that I want to go down lightly and should be more tactile to get the car back but my wife and I are very stressed about this and the car really is not worth the effort.
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andy_foster
post Thu, 29 Mar 2012 - 09:17
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Whether or not you have a case against the clampers would seem to depend on whether you have an overarching right to park in that car park without displaying a permit. This would seem to depend on the wording of your lease, but from your description of the set up and your attempt to use the SORN paperwork as an ersatz permit does not fill me with hope.

Generally speaking, civil law does not allow private companies to issue legally enforceable penalties. Whilst clamp release charges are generally punitive, broadly speaking the law allows the clampers to clamp vehicles in certain circumstances, and leaves it to the clamper and clampee to sort out whether the fee is paid and tha clamp released. If you want them to release the clamp you have to pay them, but if you are happy for your car to remain clamped, you don't owe them the clamp removal fee and there is nothing that they can sue you for.

As far as I can tell, the legality of private towing and seizing of vehicles has never been established in a court of record, but it can probably be assumed to be an extension of the legality of clamping.

In short, you don't owe them a penny, but you might not be able able to get your car back without paying them.



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emilepietersen
post Thu, 29 Mar 2012 - 10:30
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Thu, 29 Mar 2012 - 10:17) *
Whether or not you have a case against the clampers would seem to depend on whether you have an overarching right to park in that car park without displaying a permit. This would seem to depend on the wording of your lease, but from your description of the set up and your attempt to use the SORN paperwork as an ersatz permit does not fill me with hope.

Generally speaking, civil law does not allow private companies to issue legally enforceable penalties. Whilst clamp release charges are generally punitive, broadly speaking the law allows the clampers to clamp vehicles in certain circumstances, and leaves it to the clamper and clampee to sort out whether the fee is paid and tha clamp released. If you want them to release the clamp you have to pay them, but if you are happy for your car to remain clamped, you don't owe them the clamp removal fee and there is nothing that they can sue you for.

As far as I can tell, the legality of private towing and seizing of vehicles has never been established in a court of record, but it can probably be assumed to be an extension of the legality of clamping.

In short, you don't owe them a penny, but you might not be able able to get your car back without paying them.


Thanks andy_foster. You're right, basically we have a permit scheme and we didnt abide by the rules (I say through gritted teeth). Is it best just to sit on my hands now and wait for the DVLA to get in touch or is it best that I initiate it, BTW do I have to go to their office as they claim? Cant I just forward the docs in the post to the DVLA. I got the feeling that they want me to go there to pressure me into paying!

This post has been edited by emilepietersen: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 - 10:38
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Alexis
post Thu, 29 Mar 2012 - 11:12
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You don't have to do anything at all. The only problem is that if they leave it on a public road, YOU will be getting the flack for any DVLA clamping, fine and disposal fees if it's SORNed.

Just follow Gan's advice about filling in the V5.

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Gan
post Thu, 29 Mar 2012 - 11:25
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Cant I just forward the docs in the post to the DVLA. I got the feeling that they want me to go there to pressure me into paying!

That's by far the most important reason that they want you to go there

I agree with Alexis

You don't have to do anything. They could easily apply for a new V5 themselves.

As it's a SORNed car though you will have serious problems if they realise you're not going to play the game and leave it on the road.

It's therefore in your interest to wash your hands of it as quickly as possible by informing DVLA of the new keeper. Although not legally required, in this case it's worth reminding them if you don't get the "you're no longer liable" confirmation.
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whitewing
post Thu, 29 Mar 2012 - 11:52
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QUOTE
As it's a SORNed car though you will have serious problems if they realise you're not going to play the game and leave it on the road.


Surely there'd be a "The vehicle was taken without my consent" defence - especially as you can name the organisation who did the taking.

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Gan
post Thu, 29 Mar 2012 - 12:36
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That ought to be the case but the OP will have to go to court to argue it

He's a much softer target than the company and the DVLA case will be that :

1 The terms of parking require display of a permit or the vehicle will be removed
2 He didn't display the permit therefore he consented to the removal

It's not just the SORN fine he has to worry about; DVLA will also claim for unpaid vehicle duty going back to the date of the SORN.

Much easier to pass on his liability for the car, especially when the company might forget to renew the SORN as soon as they become the new keeper
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emilepietersen
post Thu, 29 Mar 2012 - 16:37
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Hi all, thanks for your input. I get the picture now. Tomorrow I will send off the V5 to the DVLA in the name of the clamping company. Gan, I will make sure that I remind the DVLA of the "no longer responsible" confirmation, if need be.

I wish I could personally thank you all, but I'll make a donation to help this site run to help those that find themselves in our situation. I might be back for more advise, I might not, but Thanks Again!
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hbkidf
post Thu, 29 Mar 2012 - 16:46
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I like it. Transfer the car in to their name, they have to pay the tax.
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Gan
post Thu, 29 Mar 2012 - 17:00
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We have an interesting dilemma : who should be the lucky recipient of this motoring icon ?

Should it be :

Axis Parking Control Ltd
9A High Street
West Drayton
Middx
UB7 7QG

The company registered to this maildrop is in the first stage of dissolution (usually just a Companies House reminder that their accounts are late)

Maybe the car should instead be donated to 100% shareholder and former director :

Martin Hall
3 Byland Drive
Hollyport
Maidenhead
Berks SL6 2HF

Opinions welcome
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