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ECP 'persistent offender' advice please
snowandsurf
post Mon, 19 Mar 2012 - 21:39
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Hi all,

I've just received an interesting letter from ECP, content as follows:

"The above vehicle is a persistant offender on Sainsburys **** car park. The vehicle has been issued with 5 PCNs all of which remain outstanding. The above vehicle will be issued with a 7 day notice the next time it is on-site and will be removed by an approved contractor, it is therefore advised that the vehicle does not return to this site or any other ECP car park, and that you contact ECP on****** to inform of your intent regarding payment for your outstanding PCNs. If full payment for all PCNs is not received within 14 days from the date of this letter a county court judgment will be issued for recovery of the monies owed."

I would like to be able to use Sainsburys car park without this threat hanging over me, or worse - the experiences of memphis73 on this thread: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...aded&start=

From reading this forum, I understand that ECP are not allowed to tow away or harass, but this doesn't seem to stop them doing it. What course of action would you suggest I take? For the record, the 5 PCNs were collected over a 12 month period, on occasions when I was not the driver. All advice gratefully received!
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post Mon, 19 Mar 2012 - 21:39
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interlog
post Mon, 19 Mar 2012 - 22:15
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I take it you are a regular customer of Sainsburys? Go and speak to the store manager and ask him/her what they have to say about the matter.
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Gan
post Mon, 19 Mar 2012 - 23:00
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Euro must learn that this behaviour will not succeed.

Their description of the court process is amateurish and strongly suggests that they have never taken action. Needless to say they have made unlawful threats to seize your property for a debt that you do not owe.

I would let them know that "this one bites"

Visit store manager with the letter to show him why you and your friends/family won't be setting foot inside his or any other Sainsbury store again. Take some receipts or a Nectar card if you have one so he can see the financial cost.

Formal complaint to DVLA that ECP has misused their database to make demands and threats without any attempt to identify the driver.

Formal complaint to BPA that ECP are operating against their code of practice.

Formal written complaint to Trading Standards about their aggressive commercial practice.

Letter to ECP (Mr B Tucker Company Secretary):

I have received a letter from your company dated xxxx asking to be informed of my intent regarding payment of outstanding PCNs that are alleged regarding the Sainsbury car park at xxxx.

My intent is that I will not pay your company a penny unless you succeed in your threatened court action. For your information I was not the driver on any of these occasions and have no legal obligation to investigate the matter or provide you with his/her/their details.

I have also noted the threat against my property. I am surprised that you, as a company officer are unaware that this is unlawful. It has already been reported as an Aggressive Trading Practice.

You may also be unaware of Principal-Agent Law as well as the liablity of company officers for unlawful practices that they allow to continue. If your company carries out its threat I will not only include your client, Sainsbury, in the claim but will take great delight to include you personally.

I therefore request that you only contact me again to confirm that either court action has been commenced or that the matter has been closed. Any other response will be regarded as harassment.


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whitewing
post Mon, 19 Mar 2012 - 23:34
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QUOTE
The above vehicle will be issued with a 7 day notice the next time it is on-site and will be removed by an approved contractor

If this is the full extent of the notification and there are no signs regarding towing, they would only be able to remove to the boundary of their property, and would not be able to demand any payment for release or to cover owing charges, as they have not pre-notified you of these possible costs.

QUOTE
and that you contact ECP on****** to inform of your intent regarding payment for your outstanding PCNs.

For my intent on this matter, I refer you to Arkel vs. Pressdram
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hbkidf
post Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 00:03
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Yep this is definitely an Arkel v Pressdram matter.
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bama
post Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 07:53
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Dear ECP Feckwit,

Having read you letter which starts "The above vehicle is a persistent offender on...."
I immediately showed the letter to the alleged offender and demanded an explanation.
The vehicle didn't respond in any way.

Yours



just joking of course but you get the drift.




--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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Gan
post Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 09:10
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You've probably realised by now that this is a situation where you need to take the initiative and there's a full spectrum of responses from humour to outright trouble-making.

Personally I would love to see the face of an employee when he learns that he's landed his company secretary with court papers, preferably with appropriate street theatre but Arkell v Pressdram still sends a message.

Regarding Sainsbury's themselves, have you considered shopping on-line with home delivery ? We've found that, even after paying the delivery charge, the better planning has cut our bills by about 30%
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Alexis
post Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 11:27
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QUOTE
a county court judgment will be issued


Does it actually say that?

Blatant breach of OFT debt collection rules.
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stu997
post Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 12:02
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Think a complaint to the BPA will be a waste of time. They have no authority on anything, and they certainly wont find one of their muppet companies having done something wrong!
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Gan
post Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 12:15
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I agree that a complaint to BPA alone is pointless which is why it has to be combined with DVLA at the very least.

The BPA agreement with DVLA requires them to police and discipline their members so a complaint to both provides a specific incident for DVLA to check.

This post has been edited by Gan: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 12:16
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hbkidf
post Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 12:32
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QUOTE (Alexis @ Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 11:27) *
QUOTE
a county court judgment will be issued


Does it actually say that?

Blatant breach of OFT debt collection rules.


I would be tempted to respond to just this part of their letter as it's so outrageous and a clear lie.
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zamzara
post Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 15:13
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Offender, eh? So they are very clear that the vehicle was not parked under a contract, so by their own admission no charge can be owed.


--------------------
Posts by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.
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bama
post Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 15:23
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indeed z smile.gif


always worth a complaint to the BPA and the DVLA - build up the stats !


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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stu997
post Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 18:32
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Have just telephoned the BPA to make a complaint..

Recorded message:-

"The BPA are unable to deal with parking ticket or clamping complaints from the general public, nor are we a regulatory body, so unfortuhately, we are unable to resolve any issue you may have"

LAUGHABLE!!!!!
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bama
post Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 19:10
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always do it in writing

This post has been edited by bama: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 19:10


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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cieranc
post Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 19:45
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Dear Mr Tucker,
I've recieved a very silly letter from someone in your company, and I think you know who sent it.
Stop this nonsense immediately, or I'll tell your mam what you've been doing.



--------------------
"You won't like me when I'm angry. Because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources."

The Credible Hulk.
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snowandsurf
post Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 20:05
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QUOTE (Alexis @ Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 11:27) *
QUOTE
a county court judgment will be issued


Does it actually say that?

Blatant breach of OFT debt collection rules.


Yes Alexis, I does say that! I guess they mean that a county court summons will be issued?
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snowandsurf
post Tue, 20 Mar 2012 - 20:23
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A big THANK YOU to everyone who has replied smile.gif Gan, I will go with your suggestion, and post back with updates on how it goes! Cheers
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snowandsurf
post Wed, 4 Apr 2012 - 20:13
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Ok, here's an upate. Received a reply from ECP, scan attached, think you will find it interesting/amusing. Note no longer any mention of taking me to court.

Surprisingly, no reply yet from my local Sainsburys. I thought it best to get something from them in writing, so I sent a letter along the lines of 'I do a lot of shopping here but can't if being threatened by ECP, please reassure me that ECP won't do anything illegal when I park here' Perhaps they're running it past their legal dept before replying!

Your comments as to what to do next would be greatly appreciated. smile.gif Thanks


Attached thumbnail(s)
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axeman
post Wed, 4 Apr 2012 - 21:13
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QUOTE (snowandsurf @ Wed, 4 Apr 2012 - 21:13) *
Ok, here's an upate. Received a reply from ECP, scan attached, think you will find it interesting/amusing. Note no longer any mention of taking me to court.

Surprisingly, no reply yet from my local Sainsburys. I thought it best to get something from them in writing, so I sent a letter along the lines of 'I do a lot of shopping here but can't if being threatened by ECP, please reassure me that ECP won't do anything illegal when I park here' Perhaps they're running it past their legal dept before replying!

Your comments as to what to do next would be greatly appreciated. smile.gif Thanks


how about we all ring her and congratulate her on the claptrap letter?


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NOTICE The content of this post and of any replies to it may assist in or relate to the formulation of strategy tactics etcetera in a legal action. This post and any replies to it should therefore be assumed to be legally privileged and therefore must not be disclosed, copied, quoted, discussed, used or referred to outside of the PePiPoo forum on which it was originally posted additionally it must not be disclosed, copied, quoted, discussed, used or referred to by any person or organisation other than a member of PePiPoo appropriately paid up and in full compliance with the PePiPoo terms of use for the forum on which it was originally posted. The PePiPoo terms of use can be found at http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=boardrules. For the avoidance of doubt, if you are reading this material in any form other than an on-line HTML resource directly and legitimately accessed via a URL commencing "http://forums.pepipoo.com" then it has been obtained by improper means and you are probably reading it in breach of legal privilege. If the material you are reading does not include this notice then it has been obtained improperly and you are probably reading it in breach of legal privilege. Your attention is drawn to the Written Standards for the Conduct of Professional Work issued by the Bar Standards Board particularly under heading 7, "Documents".

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved" and do not constitute legal advice. Liability for application lies with the reader.
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