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Speeding Fine From Police Van Camera, Appealing Advice
Golfer198604
post Wed, 17 Jul 2019 - 22:20
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I received a speeding ticket from a stand alone camera in a police van parked on the road. I was apparently doing 42mph in a 30mph zone which, I believe was completely incorrect.

I sent the police the following request with regards to information about the camera as requested on this site:

I have recently received a Notice of intended prosecution (#) Vehicle Registration Number (....) where I believe my vehicle was traveling below the stated speed. I would like to make a formal request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 to see copies of the calibration certificate and maintenance records of the camera used on the day.

Would you also be able to provide me with the training record of the officer using this equipment and a copy of his certificate of competence and can you confirm that the type of equipment used conforms to Home Office Type Approval.

The police have come back stating that they do not need to provide this information due to following:

Response – Hertfordshire Constabulary neither confirms nor denies that it holds information as the duty in Section 1(1) (a) of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 does not apply, by virtue of the following exemptions;

Section 30(3) – Investigations and proceedings conducted by Public Authorities

Section 40(5) – Personal Information

The Section 30 exemption is a qualified class based exemption and I am obliged therefore to consider the public interest in providing the information is held.

The Section 40 exemption is a class based absolute exemption, which means that I am not required to identify prejudice or consider the Public Interest Test.

Factors favouring confirming or denying whether any other information is held for Section 30

Confirmation that information is held would provide transparency with regard to the policing of speeding and could allow the public to have a better understanding of the effectiveness of the Police Service. Factors against confirming or denying whether any other information is held for Section 30

The force’s future law enforcement capabilities would be affected and this would hinder the prevention and detection of crime.

Can anyone help me with the above and give me some kind of response to what the police have stated in their reply?

Any help would be very much appreciated.
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post Wed, 17 Jul 2019 - 22:20
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southpaw82
post Wed, 17 Jul 2019 - 22:47
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And why do you want the calibration records and training records? What do you think you’re going to do with them?


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Golfer198604
post Wed, 17 Jul 2019 - 22:59
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I took the advice on money saving expert, they said to ask for this information. I presume it is to check to see if the camera has been calibrated and if they have followed all the correct steps.

Is this incorrect advice then?

I know for a fact I was not doing 42mph, I believe the camera was incorrect. How else can I appeal this fine?

Thanks
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BaggieBoy
post Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 00:13
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You can't appeal it, you can however not accept the offer and allow the matter to be heard in court where you can defend the allegation. You would need to prove that the speed reading was incorrect, training records and calibration certificates are very unlikely to provide this.

Motoring advice on MSE is often suspect at best.

QUOTE (Golfer198604 @ Wed, 17 Jul 2019 - 23:59) *
I took the advice on money saving expert, they said to ask for this information.

Here is your post on MSE, looks like you came up with the ideas all by yourself, no one on MSE suggested it.\\https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...d.php?t=6026195
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Jlc
post Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 06:40
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Your first step, prior to naming the driver within the 28 day deadline, is to ask for a photo to assist with the identification of the driver.

They don’t have to supply but often do.

It is far more likely you were exceeding the limit. Possibly caught before you saw them or accelerating too early out of a limit.

Should you want to contest it then the matter would have to go to trial at court. The speed measurement would be presumed correct unless you can show otherwise. At the far end of the scale if you lost then you’ll get 4 points and a fine and costs bill potentially exceeding £1,000.

That excess qualifies for a course or fixed penalty (3 points £100) and these are lost if contesting.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 06:44


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Slithy Tove
post Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 06:59
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QUOTE (Golfer198604 @ Wed, 17 Jul 2019 - 23:20) *
I was apparently doing 42mph in a 30mph zone which, I believe was completely incorrect.

How "completely" incorrect do you think it was? Do you think you were doing less than 30? There's a big difference between 30 and 42.
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NewJudge
post Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 07:24
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Just out of interest where did you get the idea of asking for this information as your first response? It may help others avoid the same pitfall which, although it's unlikely, may see your matter progressed straight to court action.
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southpaw82
post Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 07:40
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QUOTE (Golfer198604 @ Wed, 17 Jul 2019 - 23:59) *
I took the advice on money saving expert, they said to ask for this information.

Is that statement as accurate as your recollection that you weren’t doing 42?


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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cp8759
post Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 10:30
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QUOTE (Golfer198604 @ Wed, 17 Jul 2019 - 23:20) *
Can anyone help me with the above and give me some kind of response to what the police have stated in their reply?

Their reply seems to comply with the requirements of the Freedom of Information Act. The information you have asked is plainly subject to the section 40(5) exemption which, as they correctly identify, is an absolute exemption.

If you only asked for the calibration certificate, you might be able to get the decision overturned, but as far as we are aware asking to see the calibration certificate has never helped anyone, ever.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 12:05
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 11:30) *
as far as we are aware asking to see the calibration certificate has never helped anyone, ever.

Well not in the last 10 years anyway, 'back in the day' some forces would drop cases if the cert' was out of date even though there wasn't necessarily a legal basis to do so, in the same way they used to drop some 'not sure of driver' cases but now pass it to let a court to decide if the necessary diligence had been performed or not.


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