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[NIP Wizard] NIP - Help
Mrslow
post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 17:33
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - January 2018
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 19 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A3 Anglesea Road, Portsmouth
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - NIP is dated Tenth /1/18 and the letter has a stamp of Eleventh /1/18, NIP received at the registered car address on Twenty fourth /1/18 (1st class stamp)

Allegation of speeding, exceed thirty mph on restricted road - manned equipment. Recorded speed of fifty six mph.

The allegation is supported by video/dvd &/or photographic evidence. (no evidence enclosed with NIP)

Clear, dry day, with clear road, cannot recall travelling at such speed, did notice the speed camera van parked in a very restricted area with road lamp posts and road signs directly in front, operating behind a road island on cross marked white lines and behind a railway bridge. Equipment pointing past the bridge. Looks as it could be very difficult to hit a direct speed reading point from the car and the reading could possibly be of the travelling wheel.

There are no speed limit signs for a very long stretch of the road - I understand that as I driver, it is my responsibility to be aware of the limit.

Would appreciate any help or advice as it is a serious allegation with damaging circumstances follow.

Am I in the position to request;

1. To see full evidence of the allegation
2. To ask to see the site survey of where the equipment was operated
3. To ask the exact model of manned equipment used
4. To ask for calibration records of the equipment
5. To ask for training/qualification records of the operator

Could a railway bridge with train tracks and power lines affect the reading of the equipment?


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - Unsure
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 17:33:05 +0000

This post has been edited by Mrslow: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 18:39
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Mrslow
post Sat, 24 Mar 2018 - 20:52
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Hi all, first of all, thank you all so much for the information provided so far. Just checking back in on the same topic proceeding to the next stage.

A witness statement has been given by the 'witness' identified as the police staff which deals with records of the offences, rather than the actual equipment operator.

Can I ask if this is a correct procedure? As far as I understand a witness can only be someone who was at the scene to witness the event first hand - I.E the equipment operator or any other individuals at the scene.

Would be grateful if someone could advise.
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southpaw82
post Sun, 25 Mar 2018 - 00:02
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QUOTE (Mrslow @ Sat, 24 Mar 2018 - 20:52) *
As far as I understand a witness can only be someone who was at the scene to witness the event first hand

Your understanding is not correct.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Mrslow
post Sun, 25 Mar 2018 - 19:59
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 25 Mar 2018 - 01:02) *
QUOTE (Mrslow @ Sat, 24 Mar 2018 - 20:52) *
As far as I understand a witness can only be someone who was at the scene to witness the event first hand

Your understanding is not correct.


Thank you for the response, could you elaborate please?

I don't understand how someone, not present at the scene, can be a more reliable witness, over someone who was at the scene to produce the allegation.

Could this suggest that the equipment operator is not trained or given the authority to act on behalf of the local law enforcement department?
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peterguk
post Sun, 25 Mar 2018 - 20:04
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QUOTE (Mrslow @ Sun, 25 Mar 2018 - 20:59) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 25 Mar 2018 - 01:02) *
QUOTE (Mrslow @ Sat, 24 Mar 2018 - 20:52) *
As far as I understand a witness can only be someone who was at the scene to witness the event first hand

Your understanding is not correct.


Thank you for the response, could you elaborate please?

I don't understand how someone, not present at the scene, can be a more reliable witness, over someone who was at the scene to produce the allegation.

Could this suggest that the equipment operator is not trained or given the authority to act on behalf of the local law enforcement department?



It more likely suggests that there are other witness statements that you haven't seen yet.

Presumably you've received a SJPN/summons? Full disclosure will occur if you plead NG in court.


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southpaw82
post Sun, 25 Mar 2018 - 20:08
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QUOTE (Mrslow @ Sun, 25 Mar 2018 - 20:59) *
Thank you for the response, could you elaborate please?

I don't understand how someone, not present at the scene, can be a more reliable witness, over someone who was at the scene to produce the allegation.


What exactly does their statement say? Presumably not that they directly observed you commit the offence, so what does it say?

QUOTE
Could this suggest that the equipment operator is not trained or given the authority to act on behalf of the local law enforcement department?


It doesn’t suggest anything of the sort.


--------------------
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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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notmeatloaf
post Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 09:28
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It is quite normal for their to be two witness statements, one from the camera operator and one from the person processing the offence in the back office.

This is because the police should have a chain of custody of the video evidence, e.g. certainty that the video recorded at the scene was the same one reviewed in the back office and there is no chance it could have been altered or tampered with.

It does not mean that the clerk would be seen as a more reliable witness, just that they are doing belt and braces. As has been said if you plead not guilty there will almost certainly be a statement from the camera operator, and it will almost certainly be a pro-forma statement so there are unlikely to be holes.

There is always the chance that between the police and CPS there will be some administrative problem with the evidence but if this is the case the CPS would likely ask for an adjournment for them to get their act together. It is a very, very long shot to rely on insufficient evidence as a defence.
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Mrslow
post Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 19:26
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Just got the chance to see all responses, thanks all!

To confirm, I'm not planning to plea not guilty, as currently there are no means to prove that I was not speeding - and I trust that the manned equipment will be adequately set up, calibrated and operate by trained personnel.

Therefore my only option for now is to plea guilty without attendance to court or plea guilty with attendance to court. Personally, I think it would be better to be standing in front of the judge for the human factor element and to show the respect and responsibility on my part, as well as present any mitigating circumstances which may not necessarily out rule the punishment, but arriving at the correct judgement of character for an appropriate lesson to learn.

As far as I can make out, there is no statement from the manned equipment operator, please see the attachment of the statement to which I refer - it goes on to present photographic evidence on the following pages.

Again, any further insight would be great.
Attached thumbnail(s)
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peterguk
post Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 19:32
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Full evidence disclosure will only take place if you plead NG in court.


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The Rookie
post Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 19:57
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There is sufficient evidence to sentence if you plead guilty. If you have a Single Justice Procedure Notice then there seems little point taking it to a court room for a simple guilty plea.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Jlc
post Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 19:57
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Whilst it’s a big deal for you, it's fairly routine for the court.

There's little you can do to mitigate, only aggravate if you are not careful.

Try a postal plea first for which they may issue 6 points. If not, a court attendance will be required anyway where a short ban may be considered.

The fine will be around 1 week's relevant earnings with costs of £85. A surcharge of 10% of the fine, minimum £30.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 19:58


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Mrslow
post Mon, 26 Mar 2018 - 21:59
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Thank you guys, yes I guess it will be a daily procedure for the courts, just want to make sure to come across in genuine manner, which could be somewhat impersonal pleading remotely, but I have no daunt that the court procedure can also go either way.

For the postal, or even the formal proceedings, what would be the best practice of approach? And do both methods take the same approximately the same time to proceed?
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