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Logician
Posted on: Today, 12:38


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QUOTE (baroudeur @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 11:49) *
Speeding is a criminal offence in Switzerland and challenging a speeding penalty, obtained with the use of approved equipment, will be extrememly difficult and expensive. In the UK the advice in similar circumstances, more often than not, is to pay. Whether the Swiss will attempt to recover unpaid penalties as a debt through a civil claim in the UK remains to be seen. Some Italian authorities appear to be using Claims Management Companies but, so far, no court cases have been reported but one International Claims Management Company is pressing hard in the EU for it to be approved for cross border recovery How long before recovery of unpaid penalties within the EU becomes the norm? Some countries already have such agreements in place.


As a fine arising from a criminal offence, on the face of it a UK court appears unlikely to accept it as a civil debt.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1376183 · Replies: 62 · Views: 6,424

Logician
Posted on: Today, 12:32


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QUOTE (merlinthecat @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 12:54) *
Can I at least write to WYP along with a duly completed NIP to say I don't deny being the driver but I genuinely think the reading is in error?


You can do, but there is no chance whatever that they will think you might have a point and let it go. What is much more likely is that they will not offer you a course or a fixed penalty, which are meant for drivers who accept they were speeding, and take you straight to court so that you have the opportunity to plead not guilty and let the court decide. Even pleading guilty in court would be more expensive than a fixed penalty and being found guilty after a not guilty plea would be very expensive indeed.

Basically you either have to suck it up and simply accept it or go to court, there is no halfway house.



  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1376180 · Replies: 16 · Views: 107

Logician
Posted on: Today, 11:11


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QUOTE
As the filming was clearly done from across the road and the view is oblique, the reading clearly has not been made perpendicular to the car.


To get a total accurate reading the measurement should be on the line of travel of the car, and the more it moves away from that, the lower the reading until perpendicular to the car would give a nil reading. you were therefore going slightly faster than the measured speed.

I would suggest that momentary inattention on a very familiar route is the reason why your speed drifted higher. You should be offered a course for that excess, provided you have not done one for an offence within the last 3 years.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1376159 · Replies: 16 · Views: 107

Logician
Posted on: Yesterday, 18:42


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If you were at that location at the time/date given and the speed is what you might have been doing, not having noticed any camera, that is probably it. In certain circumstances there may be arguments about whether the limit has been correctly imposed by an appropriate TRO or whether the signage is adequate, we cannot say without knowing more detail. Similarly if we could tell you the likely penalty if we knew the limit and alleged speed.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1376033 · Replies: 3 · Views: 291

Logician
Posted on: Yesterday, 18:32


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QUOTE (Maestro @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 10:15) *
Another point: Being self-employed, I hold my money mostly in the business account. I can't claim all of it is my savings, since I have to pay corporate tax, income tax etc from it. I am confused as to how to fill the earnings page on the SJPN, especially the monthly income and savings parts. Any advice?


If you are paying corporation tax, you are operating through a company, and that company is legally separate from yourself, even though you may be the sole director and shareholder. Consider only the amount you pay income tax on. Take your most recent available figures and if necessary adjust them for any changes since. The income you need is after paying tax and NI. Savings will in practice not be relevant, but again take your own savings, not anything held by the company.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1376029 · Replies: 19 · Views: 814

Logician
Posted on: Yesterday, 09:01


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Be very careful about drafting your 'mitigation' because it is very easy to say something that actually is anything but, as in for instance stating that you were so distracted by personal problems that you gave little attention to what you were doing. It may be true, but it is not helpful to you.

Your gripes with the law can be posted in the Flamepit section or sent to your MP, this forum deals with the law as it exists.

You have some fair points to make in terms of exceptional hardship, particularly as it might affect your children; hardship to others counts for rather more than hardship to yourself so if you are less able to see them, risk losing your house which is or is hoped to be a second home for them, that helps your case. Losing your job or contract is not in itself exceptional, but the effects on others might be, ie on your children as stated and on any others who depend on you performing your contract, especially if you would be hard to replace. Do you see how you need to frame your situation?
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1375839 · Replies: 19 · Views: 814

Logician
Posted on: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 20:51


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Either you a) already have 9 to 11 points, or b) you have 12 as you think and you have not been disqualified as a totter because you have previously put forward a successful exceptional hardship argument.

You have not given us any reason to suppose there is a defect in the process, although the police should have realised your licence position earlier, or put forward any defence.

If a) is the case and you think you have grounds for an exceptional hardship argument, you will need to apply for your case to be transferred to a full court.

If it is b) you can make a further exceptional hardship argument but not using the grounds you used previously, within the past three years.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1375761 · Replies: 19 · Views: 814

Logician
Posted on: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 20:41


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It should be a fixed penalty.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1375760 · Replies: 5 · Views: 269

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 23:40


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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 23:34) *
QUOTE (kanikuly77 @ Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 21:34) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 18:56) *
QUOTE (kanikuly77 @ Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 17:24) *
"Right, your case seems without a doubt a win case for us, and we will represent you in the court and do all the paper works, which will result for you no points and no penalty fee. We will do all that for you for £700 + Vat".
What did they say when you asked what defence they intended using?
I didn't go as far as there as once the £700+vat hit me, I've decided that I will wait till I get more answers on here laugh.gif but the main thing was "leave everything to us and don't you worry about a thing" I'm guessing they will be probably calling back tomorrow to ask if I made up my mind ha!
If they say they can guarantee success, you might as well go for it. If you then lose, you would have an arguable negligence claim against them.


There is a bit of a difference between "it seems like a win case" and a guarantee of success, and I think a successful claim for negligence would require something more than an over-optimistic opinion of the chance of acquittal.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1375535 · Replies: 21 · Views: 928

Logician
Posted on: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 16:25


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Have you re-applied for your licence? It does not come automatically, you do need to apply.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1375112 · Replies: 47 · Views: 10,223

Logician
Posted on: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 09:47


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This is very different from a parking ticket, all that is needed is that you are provided with enough information to know where and when the alleged offence occurred, and you clearly do know. With roadworks, the signage will be moving to keep pace with the work, so this period of time after the event the situation that existed at the time cannot be verified, and it is most unlikely that there is any error in the order for the temporary speed limit on a motorway, but you could check. You were slightly too fast for a course, but well within the fixed penalty band, so resign yourself to that.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1374975 · Replies: 11 · Views: 750

Logician
Posted on: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 - 10:00


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Look on the bottom of page 2 of the V5C, and find the Doc Ref number, next to it is a date, what is that date and what is the date of the alleged offence?
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1374730 · Replies: 5 · Views: 304

Logician
Posted on: Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 18:47


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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 16:25) *
QUOTE (Logician @ Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 16:19) *
... you lose you also lose the chance of a fixed penalty and are liable for costs of up to £620.
£620 is the starting point, there is no upper limit.


No court is going to award costs exceeding £620 for a case like this.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1374618 · Replies: 11 · Views: 684

Logician
Posted on: Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 15:19


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The day of the offence was the day you collected the car, unless you sent off the change of owner to the DVLA in advance of that, did you do that? Or are you looking at the date of change of ownership, rather than the date next to the doc ref number?

To mount a defence on the basis of the NIP being over 14 days, you would have to go to court and challenge the prosecution on the basis that the NIP had not been sent to the person registered as the keeper of the vehicle at the time of the commission of the offence. As the police obviously want to use the latest information available to them, showing that they did not would be an uphill struggle. I would say that your chances of success are between nil and zero, and unfortunately if you lose you also lose the chance of a fixed penalty and are liable for costs of up to £620. It would indeed be a big gamble.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1374574 · Replies: 11 · Views: 684

Logician
Posted on: Sat, 14 Apr 2018 - 22:48


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As Jlc says, and provided there was no lower limit than 70 in force, that should bring a fixed penalty of £100 + 3 points. Do not forget to tell your insurers probably on renewal, but possibly immediately, check your policy.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1374488 · Replies: 11 · Views: 684

Logician
Posted on: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 - 17:24


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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Fri, 13 Apr 2018 - 08:45) *
QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 13 Apr 2018 - 07:32) *
But we do know it wasn't on a road ...
But it was almost certainly in an "other public place". Not sure if "Inconsiderate Driving" (if that what the charge turns out to be) can be committed in an "other public place". I expect so.


Inconsiderate driving can be, motor racing can't be.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1374256 · Replies: 27 · Views: 1,682

Logician
Posted on: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 - 17:19


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You are also of course possibly losing the chance to do a course instead of getting points in relation to a future offence.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1374252 · Replies: 30 · Views: 1,767

Logician
Posted on: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 19:34


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The OP is alleged to have been arsing about in a car park, drifting and wheel spinning, the charge needs to be relevant to that. Motor racing or trial of speed requires more than one vehicle and a public road, so is not appropriate.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1373986 · Replies: 27 · Views: 1,682

Logician
Posted on: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 12:44


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I would also mention that their letter was received by you 15 days after the alleged incident, as the allegation is inconsiderate driving which would not be the appropriate charge if an accident had occurred.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1373875 · Replies: 27 · Views: 1,682

Logician
Posted on: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:36


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QUOTE
..............Section A and B but there is no section A anywhere on the form.


Perhaps Section A was the part you have redacted, that is the only way it makes sense. As above, giving a timeline for each driver is the best way to respond and you will have to reply to the Central Ticket Office at the address given as you have not been given an SAE.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1373827 · Replies: 27 · Views: 1,682

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 - 20:21


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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 11 Apr 2018 - 18:02) *
QUOTE (Logician @ Wed, 11 Apr 2018 - 17:17) *
the requirements of s.172
Section 1 Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.


Whoops, thanks for the correction.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1373704 · Replies: 15 · Views: 867

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 - 20:14


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I took the OP to mean a camera which was a yellow box, not a camera on a yellow box junction, and the query was that such a camera would not be 'manned'. It does not really matter, the question is whether or not valid evidence is available that the vehicle was speeding.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1373703 · Replies: 10 · Views: 824

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 - 16:21


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That error on a NIP does not invalidate it, so does not help you.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1373656 · Replies: 10 · Views: 824

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 - 16:17


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The DVLA database is copied on to the Police National Computer overnight, and the police/camera partnerships access that, which will be the last known information available to them about the registered keeper and their address. To obtain a previous address they would have to depart from their standard routine, and there would be no reason for them to do so, their interest clearly lies in using the most up-to-date information available. It is there very unlikely that you have a defence available on the basis that the requirements of s.172 were not complied with. If you are facing a six month totting ban if you receive the points this offence would bring, then any possible defence, however speculative and costly it may be, might be worth exploring. Absent that circumstance, my advice would be not to mount a defence on these grounds.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1373654 · Replies: 15 · Views: 867

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 - 09:51


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QUOTE
What process/advice would you seek as it seems no attempt even at new address to contact registered keeper first?


That is not a reasonable assumption, it is much more likely that the NIP went to your previous address and as no response was received the police then consulted the insurance database. Regardless of whether you have that unlikely defence, you have now received a requirement under s.172 to give any information which is in your power to give to aid the identification of the driver, so that is what you must now do.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1373519 · Replies: 15 · Views: 867

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