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PCM windscreen PCN - failed to show permit - in "right to park" Parking Space designated Parking Area
SaytoPeP
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 12:59
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I have received 1 PCN from PCM stuck on my car (I wasn't the driver) for failing to display the permit that fell off the dashboard.

The car was parked in a parking space designated by management as designated parking area as part of London City Island development. According to the lease, I do not have a specific bay but have exclusive right to park one car in the designated parking area. When purchasing the apartment, the right to park came with a premium of £30k and we regularly have to pay service charge to maintain the parking area in addition to the apartment.

My exclusive right as per the lease:

If the expression "the Parking Space" is defined in clause 1 of this Lease (but only if it is so defined)
(a) the exclusive right to park one private motor car (or one private motor bike) in the Parking Space


and further stated in another schedule as excerpted below which to me should serve as a reminder of what we could agree as a regulation but not agreeing to an invoice from a third party not party to the lease.

To comply with all reasonable regulations which the Landlord may from time to time make and publish in respect of the use of car parking spaces within the Parking Area

My thinking, the request is coming from PCM who is not a party to the lease and no appointment of a third party to manage parking has been mentioned in the lease apart from Parking service charges so PCM should not have any power, I believe.

So I don't see how PCM can take me to court without Landlord's consent stating that I have not complied with the term of the lease i.e. park in the designated area.


What I have done so far:
i) I have appealed to PCM citing below cases but was rejected and I don't think I will appeal to the infamous IAS either.

Pace v Mr N [2016] C6GF14F0 [2016] it was found that the parking company could not override the
tenant’s right to park by requiring a permit to park.

Link Parking v Ms P C7GF50J7 [2016] it was also found that the parking company could not
override the tenant’s right to park by requiring a permit to park.

The rejection has pointed to IAS and debt collector and I think the only way to go ahead with this is small claims court.

ii) I have asked the Managing Company to provide me with the contract they signed with PCM as it should be serving to protect residents' interests not harm them.


What I need help with
i) I need help to know what I should do in between. Happy to load all the docs including the lease and send any email out to the relevant parties.

ii) To point out what I have missed.
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post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 12:59
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Eljayjay
post Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 00:37
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Take another look at post #6.

Your lease talks about “THE” parking space, not “A” parking space.

It also says that you have “the exclusive right to park... in the parking space”. How can you have the “EXCLUSIVE” right to park in a shared parking space?

You are saying your lease “just says right to park”. I think you are mistaken. Where do you think your lease says that?


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SaytoPeP
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 17:14
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QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 02:41) *
What you need to say is...

According to my lease, I should have been allocated a parking space in the car park. Which parking space is my allocated parking space please?


Update to this question - I received the below response:

I hope you are well.

Your email has been passed over to me in regards to your car parking space.

In the LCI car park we don’t have allocated bays for each apartment with the right to park. When purchasing you purchased the right to park on site so you can park your vehicle on site however we do not have allocated bays I’m afraid.

I hope this helps and if there is anything else I can help you with please feel free to contact me.


QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Fri, 5 Oct 2018 - 01:37) *
Take another look at post #6.

Your lease talks about “THE” parking space, not “A” parking space.

It also says that you have “the exclusive right to park... in the parking space”. How can you have the “EXCLUSIVE” right to park in a shared parking space?

You are saying your lease “just says right to park”. I think you are mistaken. Where do you think your lease says that?


I would agree with you Elljayjay as it is exclusive indeed as I need to pay for the service charge specifically for the car park. I have engaged the management company GM who refused to cancel my PCN beyond my belief. He has however provided me with a copy of the contract with PCM but the company name is not the same as the one in the lease surprisingly. Should I ask PCM for a copy then?

Further updates since Sep 18:

I have:
i) engaged PCM and ICO as they got a DRC (Trace) to demand for debt recovery. I contacted ICO claiming GDPR breach as I have not signed any contract with them allowing them to provide my data to a third party;
ii) provided PCM with my lease to show that I am the leaseholder with a parking right;
iii) 13/12/18 received a letter before claim to pay within 30 days - see attached.

So the question now - should I reply to this letter? Here's what I have copied from another forum:

[b]Gladstones Solicitors
The Terrace
High Leigh Park Golf Club
Warrington
Cheshire
WA16 6AA

[Date]

Your Ref: [Ref]

Dear Sirs,

I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim of [Date].

The letter that I received does not provide me with enough detail of the claim, nor does it provide any evidence that you stated in your letter that your client is relying on. Your client must come to understand that on 1st October 2017, a new protocol came into action regarding debt claims. Since the claim proceedings are taking place after this date, the new protocol must be adhered to.

The letter that I received from yourselves does not meet the requirements of the previously valid Practice Direction – Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6©) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d)), 5.1 and 5.2. As you and your client should be well aware, the previously used Practice Direction and the Protocol, which is applicable from 1st October 2017, are legally binding to all parties of any sized debt claim. It is in place so that prior to court proceedings, all parties understand the claim and their particular positions in relation to it, ensure that parties can take stock of their positions and also negotiate a settlement before the claim goes to court as to mitigate court costs and also valuable court time.

I am requesting all the documents/information that the new protocol state that your client has to produce. As a result of not providing this information from letter before claim, your client should not issue any proceedings without complying with the protocol requirements. I must also state that I reserve the right to bring to light any failure of the Claimant to obey with the protocol to the attention of the court, and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when any costs come to be considered.

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. An explanation of the cause of action
2. Whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. Whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. What the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 establishing yourself as the creditor.
8. A plan showing where any signs were displayed
9. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
10. Provide details of the original charge and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and © and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Lastly, I cannot properly respond to this claim filed against me, I am also unable to understand my position in relation to it until your client has fulfilled their responsibilities as the Claimant, by providing me with the sufficient information that is required of them to go forth with any court proceedings. If your client still proceeds without this information provided, I will seek immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practise Direction, and an order that this information is provided.


Yours faithfully

[/b]

This post has been edited by SaytoPeP: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 17:15
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 18:11
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QUOTE
When purchasing you purchased the right to park on site

That's good, evidence that you have pre-existing RIGHT to park. Were you there before PCM, or were they infesting the place when you moved in (hint - NEVER even view a place with a PPC scammer).

You will need that evidence later, after Gladstones file a claim. There is nothing you can do to stop a claim being filed, because it's a robo claim conveyor belt with no facts checked.

Objecting to debt collectors being given your data will get nowhere with the ICO. But at least it will keep PCM busy replying. Don't hold your breath about that - it will go nowhere.

That is a really old letter (please don't use that) but please don't be steered by Eljayjay, who peppers this forum with a template wording that's far too long and confuses posters. If you got that old letter from MSE then it's not recommended any more.

The MSE NEWBIES thread makes it clear to simply email a SAR to PCM's DPO (see PCM's privacy page online for the contact email). And a holding reply to Gladstones pointing out that you require them to restrict data processing whilst the SAR and ICO complaint are undertaken, and adding that it will be pointless for them to reply with their usual 'we have compelling reasons to process the data as a claim is in hand', because time is NOT of the essence and a claim can just as easily be filed in say, 6 - 8 weeks' time once the SAR & the ICO complaint are back and time has been allowed for you to consider them.

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 18:12
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SaytoPeP
post Mon, 27 May 2019 - 17:25
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 18:11) *
QUOTE
When purchasing you purchased the right to park on site

That's good, evidence that you have pre-existing RIGHT to park. Were you there before PCM, or were they infesting the place when you moved in (hint - NEVER even view a place with a PPC scammer).

You will need that evidence later, after Gladstones file a claim. There is nothing you can do to stop a claim being filed, because it's a robo claim conveyor belt with no facts checked.

Objecting to debt collectors being given your data will get nowhere with the ICO. But at least it will keep PCM busy replying. Don't hold your breath about that - it will go nowhere.

That is a really old letter (please don't use that) but please don't be steered by Eljayjay, who peppers this forum with a template wording that's far too long and confuses posters. If you got that old letter from MSE then it's not recommended any more.

The MSE NEWBIES thread makes it clear to simply email a SAR to PCM's DPO (see PCM's privacy page online for the contact email). And a holding reply to Gladstones pointing out that you require them to restrict data processing whilst the SAR and ICO complaint are undertaken, and adding that it will be pointless for them to reply with their usual 'we have compelling reasons to process the data as a claim is in hand', because time is NOT of the essence and a claim can just as easily be filed in say, 6 - 8 weeks' time once the SAR & the ICO complaint are back and time has been allowed for you to consider them.


Think you were way ahead of time. Those forecasts were correct, ICO was useless, kept PCM at bay for awhile but yes the conveyor belt has sent me the court claim form. I have attached the claim form, and looking at it, they had lied saying that I agreed to pay (WTF). So, I'm looking for help to counterclaim - happy to giveaway 75% of the counterclaim on successful claim. Think it should be an easy win but I'd rather it getting done by someone with experience rather than a newbie like me.

I have filed acknowledgement of service so I should have 28 days from 12/5 (date of service) to file a defence statement I believe.

Any takers?
Attached File(s)
Attached File  County_Court_Claim_form_Redacted.pdf ( 770.47K ) Number of downloads: 28
 
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Redivi
post Mon, 27 May 2019 - 19:19
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Remove that picture NOW

You've left all the information including the claim reference number

Parking companies follow this forum and will use against you any information that they find
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