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Vehicle Control Services, PCN to keeper
DancingDad
post Fri, 12 Aug 2016 - 17:34
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Finally managed to fall foul of a PPC
ANPR reckons my car was in car park for 24 minutes without payment of parking charge.
Very true no payment.
Time spent in queues and waiting for spaces until giving up and leaving, never even got a parking space.

100 quid, 60 with 14 day discount period
Appeal to them, then to IPC

Advice please, not up to speed on PPCs.

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 - 17:35
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post Fri, 12 Aug 2016 - 17:34
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Dave65
post Fri, 12 Aug 2016 - 18:54
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Some more info needed, name of parking Company, and car park. Good you have not ID driver (always refer to driver did this or that).
Dates needed of incident and PCN received. Put up a copy of PCN with all personal details redacted.
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stamfordman
post Fri, 12 Aug 2016 - 18:59
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Tell them that's 24 minutes of your life you'll never get back thanks to their inadequate car park. What's that worth?
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DancingDad
post Fri, 12 Aug 2016 - 19:03
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QUOTE (Dave65 @ Fri, 12 Aug 2016 - 19:54) *
Some more info needed, name of parking Company, and car park. Good you have not ID driver (always refer to driver did this or that).
Dates needed of incident and PCN received. Put up a copy of PCN with all personal details redacted.


Company, Vehicle Control Services ltd
Car Park Albert Street Birmingham
Date of contravention 17/7/16
Date of Notice 9/8/16

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Jlc
post Fri, 12 Aug 2016 - 19:18
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You drove in, could not find a space and rejected any contract on offer and left. There's cases where circling to find a space is not parking. (I can dig out if needed)

They will likely reject as they just want the cash. Threat, threat, threat - and possibly a court claim down the line. (Hoping you'll fold as the charge will have 'escalated' to over £200)

No point appealing to the IAS - they will likely rubberstamp the rejection.

They no longer bother with 'keeper liability' under the Protection of Freedoms Act - they pursue the keeper regardless. On the basis that if the keeper won't name the driver then they were likely to be driving.

If the keeper was not driving then there is a way to get them to back off if the keeper can 'evidence' not driving.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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DancingDad
post Fri, 12 Aug 2016 - 20:21
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Thanks JLC, may need those cases, small car park but rammed on the day, really should have been controlling entry.

Strange you should mention the keeper liability, not shown on the notice anywhere.
But they do invite me to name the driver and warn that they may still pursue the keeper if the driver denies or name is unserviceable.
Nowt on Protection of Freedom act either.
They do seem to be working on assumption that keeper was driver.
But very clear that T&Cs put the driver in the frame.

Anyone know what this company's MO is?
Threats, solicitor letters, more threats?
Or court?

This is car park.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4804604,-...3312!8i6656
They rely on T&Cs by the pay and display machines.
Drove past them a couple of times but never got a parking space so no need to visit, read or agree/disagree

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 - 20:27
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Jlc
post Fri, 12 Aug 2016 - 21:16
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Indeed, they don't even attempt keeper liability afforded under Protection of Freedoms Act. This may assist. The can only request the driver - there's no obligation to provide it.

They are litigious so threats of court may not be empty. See Excel/VCS (BW Legal) threads.

Here's the circling link.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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DancingDad
post Fri, 12 Aug 2016 - 21:53
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Ta again.

Court it is then, not played at adjudication for a while so may as well look to another direction.

So, appeal, ignore or what ?
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ostell
post Fri, 12 Aug 2016 - 22:25
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Definitley appeal, and bring in that court case.
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SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 12 Aug 2016 - 23:39
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But not saying who drove in. Write about the keeper in the third person.

Expect a load of letters from debt collectors (ignore them) and then a BW Legal letter which IS one to respond to again. Read other BW Legal threads to be forewarned.
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DancingDad
post Fri, 12 Aug 2016 - 23:48
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Sat, 13 Aug 2016 - 00:39) *
But not saying who drove in. Write about the keeper in the third person.

Expect a load of letters from debt collectors (ignore them) and then a BW Legal letter which IS one to respond to again. Read other BW Legal threads to be forewarned.


Ta.

I'll spend some time reading up now I got some pointers.
Best to post a draft for comment or best not to give them ammo ?
I assume they monitor on here ?
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SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 12 Aug 2016 - 23:59
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I wouldn't worry about showing it here as long as no posts above say who was driving (double check and edit it out, if so). Let VCS look at your appeal, they'll see it soon enough. Just don't ignore BW Legal letters (or whatever solicitor they might use in the end, after the debt collector letters fail to impress you).
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Panamajoe
post Sat, 13 Aug 2016 - 07:44
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"Date of contravention 17/7/16
Date of Notice 9/8/16"
Over the 14 days in PoFA
Is this a point?
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Lynnzer
post Sat, 13 Aug 2016 - 07:49
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QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 12 Aug 2016 - 23:25) *
Definitley appeal, and bring in that court case.

And this one.
Waiting is not parking


--------------------
The Asda shopping trolley parking ticket enthusiast
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ostell
post Sat, 13 Aug 2016 - 07:53
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QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Sat, 13 Aug 2016 - 07:49) *
QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 12 Aug 2016 - 23:25) *
Definitley appeal, and bring in that court case.

And this one.
Waiting is not parking


Same case. Here's a link to the PDF of the transcription
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The Rookie
post Sat, 13 Aug 2016 - 09:54
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QUOTE (Panamajoe @ Sat, 13 Aug 2016 - 08:44) *
"Date of contravention 17/7/16
Date of Notice 9/8/16"
Over the 14 days in PoFA
Is this a point?

No, as they aren't trying/claiming to use PoFA then not complying with the requirements to use it aren't at all relevant.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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DancingDad
post Sat, 13 Aug 2016 - 10:05
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 13 Aug 2016 - 10:54) *
QUOTE (Panamajoe @ Sat, 13 Aug 2016 - 08:44) *
"Date of contravention 17/7/16
Date of Notice 9/8/16"
Over the 14 days in PoFA
Is this a point?

No, as they aren't trying/claiming to use PoFA then not complying with the requirements to use it aren't at all relevant.


If they want the keeper to pay or do more then say pretty please name the driver, it would seem fairly relevant to me?
I know they will try it on with the keeper but as liability is with the driver, can they make the assumption that keeper and driver are the same stick in court?
QUOTE
...we may pursue the RK for any outstanding parking charge amount on the assumption they are the driver


This post has been edited by DancingDad: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 - 10:06
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Umkomaas
post Sat, 13 Aug 2016 - 10:20
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 13 Aug 2016 - 11:05) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 13 Aug 2016 - 10:54) *
QUOTE (Panamajoe @ Sat, 13 Aug 2016 - 08:44) *
"Date of contravention 17/7/16
Date of Notice 9/8/16"
Over the 14 days in PoFA
Is this a point?

No, as they aren't trying/claiming to use PoFA then not complying with the requirements to use it aren't at all relevant.


If they want the keeper to pay or do more then say pretty please name the driver, it would seem fairly relevant to me?
I know they will try it on with the keeper but as liability is with the driver, can they make the assumption that keeper and driver are the same stick in court?
QUOTE
...we may pursue the RK for any outstanding parking charge amount on the assumption they are the driver


They threaten Elliott -v- Loake (crim case with forensic evidence to confirm the keeper as the driver), but this has not been tested in any county court AFAIA. All the IPC mob seem to be quoting it, and now some BPA members are trying to elbow their way on to the bandwagon.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 13 Aug 2016 - 10:27
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Exactly, so back to the missing the 14 days being as relevant as whether the day it was sent ended in a y or not.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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DancingDad
post Sat, 13 Aug 2016 - 12:46
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All the bumf on naming the driver.... ignore or specifically refuse ?
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