PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

A new Emissions Surcharge in London
John Bravo
post Wed, 12 Oct 2016 - 21:05
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 141
Joined: 5 Dec 2015
From: London
Member No.: 81,055



Hi All,
Have a look and have your say:
https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/environmen...ty-consultation

QUOTE
Transport for London and the Mayor of London would like your views on proposals to introduce a new £10 daily Emission Surcharge (also known as the “T-charge”) in 2017.
This would be for cars, vans, minibus and heavy vehicles registered in 2005 and older. This would be in addition to the Congestion Charge.
Additionally, we would like your views on changes to the Ultra-Low Emission Zone (ULEZ), a separate scheme that will replace the Emissions Surcharge and will have stricter emissions standards for vehicles.
These changes include:
•Introducing a central London ULEZ in 2019 rather than 2020
•Extending the zone up to the North and South Circular in 2019 or later
•Extending the zone London-wide for heavy vehicles only in 2019 or later
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 17)
Advertisement
post Wed, 12 Oct 2016 - 21:05
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
The Slithy Tove
post Thu, 13 Oct 2016 - 07:08
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,091
Joined: 5 Jan 2012
Member No.: 52,178



QUOTE (John Bravo @ Wed, 12 Oct 2016 - 22:05) *
Hi All,
Have a look and have your say:
https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/environmen...ty-consultation

QUOTE
Transport for London and the Mayor of London would like your views on proposals to introduce a new £10 daily Emission Surcharge (also known as the “T-charge”) in 2017.
This would be for cars, vans, minibus and heavy vehicles registered in 2005 and older. This would be in addition to the Congestion Charge.
Additionally, we would like your views on changes to the Ultra-Low Emission Zone (ULEZ), a separate scheme that will replace the Emissions Surcharge and will have stricter emissions standards for vehicles.
These changes include:
•Introducing a central London ULEZ in 2019 rather than 2020
•Extending the zone up to the North and South Circular in 2019 or later
•Extending the zone London-wide for heavy vehicles only in 2019 or later


Doesn't surprise me. It was always mooted, especially with a Labour mayor. As I found myself driving into London (though not central London) more or less daily, I made sure my new car was a Euro VI diesel, just in case they went for a more extreme approach, e.g. charging even in outer London for Euro V and earlier diesel cars.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
John Bravo
post Thu, 13 Oct 2016 - 16:38
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 141
Joined: 5 Dec 2015
From: London
Member No.: 81,055



This is ridiculous. My car is LPG converted and these dumb assess do not care about this, but it is more ecological than Toyota Pius or diesel cars.

Some time ago I have red some comments that pollution in London has dropped drastically when bus drivers went on strike.
Similar bull **** in Oxford where by air quality they justify ANPR cameras earning them millions every year.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kommando
post Sun, 16 Oct 2016 - 14:41
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,758
Joined: 6 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,558



Meanwhile in a brand new car

The systems include software that allegedly switches off pollution control systems on some Fiat cars after 22 minutes of driving. Official European Union laboratory tests must last less than 20 minutes.

In other vehicles, including some Vauxhall models, the use of “thermal windows” means that emissions control systems operate only when the temperature is above about 17C.

This results in the system suppressing emissions at the higher ambient temperatures mandated for laboratory tests but often not in the outside world, where temperatures are frequently lower.

A third “hot start” approach was found in some Renault, Mercedes, Ford and Vauxhall models. It resulted in pollution suppression systems failing to activate when an engine was warm when the vehicle was started. The laboratory tests are conducted only on cold engines.

All the manufacturers say their “defeat systems” are legal because they are designed to prevent engine damage. EU rules permit “defeat systems” for the purpose of protecting the engine.

What is the point of these tests !!!!



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
John Bravo
post Sun, 16 Oct 2016 - 15:27
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 141
Joined: 5 Dec 2015
From: London
Member No.: 81,055



QUOTE (kommando @ Sun, 16 Oct 2016 - 15:41) *
Meanwhile in a brand new car

The systems include software that allegedly switches off pollution control systems on some Fiat cars after 22 minutes of driving. Official European Union laboratory tests must last less than 20 minutes.

In other vehicles, including some Vauxhall models, the use of “thermal windows” means that emissions control systems operate only when the temperature is above about 17C.

This results in the system suppressing emissions at the higher ambient temperatures mandated for laboratory tests but often not in the outside world, where temperatures are frequently lower.

A third “hot start” approach was found in some Renault, Mercedes, Ford and Vauxhall models. It resulted in pollution suppression systems failing to activate when an engine was warm when the vehicle was started. The laboratory tests are conducted only on cold engines.

All the manufacturers say their “defeat systems” are legal because they are designed to prevent engine damage. EU rules permit “defeat systems” for the purpose of protecting the engine.

What is the point of these tests !!!!


Haha this is very interesting.
For me this all ecology bullshit is just about increasing plastic car sales. This is how governments and car manufacturer lobbyist work hand in hand, so people change cars every so often lured by some gadgets.
I doubt that combustion engines can be drastically improved every so often e.g. every 2 years.

In my LPG system the engine behaves differently AGAIN more ecologically - uses petrol on start, but switches to LPG after about 2 minutes tops.
It looks like these new car decreased pollution is just a nice thing on paper, but a decent fraud in reality.

So what this Sadiq Khan is trying to improve in this city?
I think he should really consider cutting 100% of non commercial traffic off and switch all the double-deckers and cabs to compressed air like it was in twenties of XXth century during the oil crisis.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Incandescent
post Sun, 16 Oct 2016 - 16:52
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,728
Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,455



QUOTE
I think he should really consider cutting 100% of non commercial traffic off and switch all the double-deckers and cabs to compressed air like it was in twenties of XXth century during the oil crisis.

Er, no they did not run on compressed air as there was no infrastructure to supply it.. However, having said that, attempts were made late in the 19th and early in the 20th century to power trams by compressed air, but the electric tram was proven to be much better. Incidentally, buses before the late 20s were petrol not diesel. There was also the Tilliing Stevens petrol-electric bus too.

http://www.tramwayinfo.com/Defair.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilling-Stevens

Virtually all of the pollution in Central London is caused by the buses and taxis, but politicians will never admit this is so, as it damages their credibility when trying to eliminate car traffic.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Sun, 16 Oct 2016 - 16:55
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
John Bravo
post Sun, 16 Oct 2016 - 17:01
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 141
Joined: 5 Dec 2015
From: London
Member No.: 81,055



Interesting findings.

How are they going to deal with people that already live or rent a property within North/South Circular and have a car older than 2005? I am in zone 2 and don't want to be penalized because of some socialist mayors happening in this big city.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
buttonpusher
post Tue, 18 Oct 2016 - 10:29
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,070
Joined: 9 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,066



Do councils/governments ever take notice of the results of a consultation? I get the impression they do this to keep the voters quiet and do what they plan anyway.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
John Bravo
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 21:45
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 141
Joined: 5 Dec 2015
From: London
Member No.: 81,055



Does it make sense to any of you? The full draft is 150 pages (slides) long.

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/policy/may.../#page-factbank
https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/policy/may...ll-document.pdf

By the way I don't know where they get these disabled people in this video, because I used public transport in London for years on daily basis and have not seen a single wheelchair user on the tube or on the train.

London Air Quality Crisis? I think it would be even worse if not all toys are made in China. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by John Bravo: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 21:54
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fredd
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 22:02
Post #10


Webmaster
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 6,982
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
From: Wokingham, UK
Member No.: 2



QUOTE (John Bravo @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 22:45) *
By the way I don't know where they get these disabled people in this video, because I used public transport in London for years on daily basis and have not seen a single wheelchair user on the tube or on the train.

Not really that surprising, is it, when this is the London underground and overground network as seen by a wheelchair user?



--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

__________________________________________________________________________
Pepipoo relies on you
to keep this site running!
Donate to Pepipoo now using your
Visa, Mastercard, debit card or PayPal account
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
John Bravo
post Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 23:07
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 141
Joined: 5 Dec 2015
From: London
Member No.: 81,055



By looking at this map as a respectful wheelchair user I would get myself a wheelchair with a decent motor, but instead he/she wisely chooses other means of transport.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 14:03
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,355
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (John Bravo @ Sun, 16 Oct 2016 - 16:27) *
Haha this is very interesting.
For me this all ecology bullshit is just about increasing plastic car sales. This is how governments and car manufacturer lobbyist work hand in hand, so people change cars every so often lured by some gadgets.
I doubt that combustion engines can be drastically improved every so often e.g. every 2 years.

In my LPG system the engine behaves differently AGAIN more ecologically - uses petrol on start, but switches to LPG after about 2 minutes tops.
It looks like these new car decreased pollution is just a nice thing on paper, but a decent fraud in reality.

classic case of confusion, LPG reduces CO2 emissions and global warming, it does nothing at all for the regulated pollutants (CO,HC and NOx) and if it's an aftermark conversion they are very likely to have increased due to the conversion as the fuel feedback control is optimised for petrol and has no alternative control for LPG (which OE LPG cars do, I've worked on enough to be familiar with the issues).

Pollution issues in central London are not caused by CO2 but by the regulated pollutants, so no LPG cars should not be getting special treatment.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 14:04


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
typefish
post Sun, 3 Sep 2017 - 19:51
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,097
Joined: 28 Mar 2014
From: Corby
Member No.: 69,758



I have a car that was constructed in 2011 yet first registered in 1996 (SVA approved kit car) - so despite it being constructed 6 years after the deadline it would fall foul of these regulations, correct?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mad Mick V
post Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 16:45
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,076
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,355



Just seen a couple of sign approvals from DfT which presage another bust up with the City of London after their Bank Junction disaster:-

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-4554.pdf ----City of London

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-4557.pdf ----TfL

The TfL one looks OK because we knew that an additional charge would be made for dirty diesels etc but the CoL one is a ban on anything other than an ultra low emission vehicle. Probably have an exemption for buses and CIT vehicles.

Need to see how this pans out but given CoL's incompetence with lines and signs with Bank Junction I've stocked up on popcorn.

Mick
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Churchmouse
post Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:55
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,609
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
From: Landan
Member No.: 20,731



I thought it was supposed to be a daily charge, not a ban?

--Churchmouse

This post has been edited by Churchmouse: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 21:26
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mad Mick V
post Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 10:48
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,076
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,355



As per the DfT authorisation, City of London will need a Traffic Order--experimental or otherwise which will no doubt show the area to be covered. Seen nothing on the CoL website as to what they are up to and they don't need to publish a Notice in the London Gazette if the order is experimental.

I just hope the Lord Mayor's coach horses are low emission and keep the brocaded flunkies and their silver plated shovels out of work.

Mick
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Korting
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 23:48
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 968
Joined: 13 May 2010
Member No.: 37,524



Once again, the hardest hit by the Labour Mayor Sadiq Khan will be the poor.

Why because the rich/middle classes will but newer cars and the poorer people wont be able to afford to.

Considering that less than a decade ago we were encouraged to buy diesel now we diesel drivers are castigated for doing as we were advised.

Those who think electric vehicles are the answer think again.

How will the national grid cope with everyone recharging their cars at night?

We make electricity in this country mainly by burning fossil fuels which cause yes you've got it pollution, only difference is that the pollution is taken out of the city.

Diesel electric trains will not be replaced by electric trains because its too expensive.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
4101
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 00:34
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 353
Joined: 19 Dec 2017
Member No.: 95,634



I am registering as a punch and judy show

For a vehicle to be eligible for the discount, modifications or special constructions for the purpose of the show must be either:

Used during the performance, or
Used for the purpose of providing the performance, or
Used for carrying performance equipment, or
Used for displaying animals to the public, or
Below the chassis level, such that it isn't possible to fit emission abatement equipment
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Monday, 21st May 2018 - 20:55
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.