Court Summons for 3 offences |
Court Summons for 3 offences |
Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:22
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35 Joined: 6 Apr 2018 Member No.: 97,406 |
Hi, I've sent sent a summons by Kent Police to attend court on the 16th of April for the following:
-Careless driving -Failure to stop -Failure to report I was doing a 3 point turn on the 17th of August 2017 and I accidentaly bumped a parked car but didn't get out to check the other car because I didn't think significant damage was done. Anyways, interviewed on 3rd of December 2017 by police and a statement wasn't provided until the 13th of March 2018. In regards to the witness statement, it is dated as " 24th JULY 2017" which is a month before the incident happened. The witness does have CCTV footage of the incident and I admitted to bumping the car in the cautionary interview after being told this. I intend on pleading guilty; however, I don't want to lose my licence via totting up as I've only had it for a year now and am only 18. My question is what do you think will happen and does the incorrect date of the witness statement affect its admissibility? Also, how do I know when the papers were lodged with court? The Kent Police documents were printed on the 14th of February (just under 6 months) but the prosecutor's proof by written statement document is dated as the 5th of April 2018, which is more than 6 months after the incident. Lastly, I have been asked to pay a £85 fine and to show income but I am a full-time student with no income and living with my parents so how would this work? Am I also eligible for free legal representation/help? |
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Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:22
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Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:24
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
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Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:27
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35 Joined: 6 Apr 2018 Member No.: 97,406 |
to add to this:
-no one was injured -there weren't any other cars on the road unless parked -it was a side road -i checked my own car and saw absolutely no damage so thought that the other car had none too but they're claiming that i dented the rear passenger side and scraped some paint off -in the interview at first i said i didnt remember doing it and then remembered after being told about cctv footage - i doubt people remember what they did at 9am last week let alone 4 months before -my licence is totally clean atm -never had any trouble with the police prior to this TO THE COURT: £85 COSTS ARE APPLIED FOR: THE DECISION TO CHARGE VIA POSTAL REQUISITION _____ THIS POSTAL REQUISITION ADMINISTERED BY _____ This post has been edited by mrmk: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:30 |
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Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:30
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
in the interview at first i said i didnt remember doing it and then remembered after being told about cctv footage - i doubt people remember what they did at 9am last week let alone 4 months before It doesn't really matter since you intend pleading guilty, however i can tell you EXACTLY how many cars i have bumped in the last 5 years+. To most people bumping a car would be a rare and memorable event. -------------------- |
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Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:34
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35 Joined: 6 Apr 2018 Member No.: 97,406 |
in the interview at first i said i didnt remember doing it and then remembered after being told about cctv footage - i doubt people remember what they did at 9am last week let alone 4 months before It doesn't really matter since you intend pleading guilty, however i can tell you EXACTLY how many cars i have bumped in the last 5 years+. To most people bumping a car would be a rare and memorable event. i'm just throwing that in to give people a greater understanding of the situation. what about in regards to the rest of what i said? |
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Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 00:10
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
TO THE COURT: £85 COSTS ARE APPLIED FOR: THE DECISION TO CHARGE VIA POSTAL REQUISITION _____ THIS POSTAL REQUISITION ADMINISTERED BY _____ Those would be costs of the prosecution, not a fine. I doubt you’ll lose your licence through totting up, as that requires you to accumulate 12 points. Where offences are committed on the same occasion you normally only receive points for the most serious - in this case fail to stop, which carries 5 - 10 points. You might, therefore, get away with 5 points (or the court might impose more). I am surprised the case has got this far - normally matters like this are dealt with by the police obtaining your details and then leaving it to the insurance companies to sort out. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 00:31
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35 Joined: 6 Apr 2018 Member No.: 97,406 |
TO THE COURT: £85 COSTS ARE APPLIED FOR: THE DECISION TO CHARGE VIA POSTAL REQUISITION _____ THIS POSTAL REQUISITION ADMINISTERED BY _____ Those would be costs of the prosecution, not a fine. I doubt you’ll lose your licence through totting up, as that requires you to accumulate 12 points. Where offences are committed on the same occasion you normally only receive points for the most serious - in this case fail to stop, which carries 5 - 10 points. You might, therefore, get away with 5 points (or the court might impose more). I am surprised the case has got this far - normally matters like this are dealt with by the police obtaining your details and then leaving it to the insurance companies to sort out. Insurance did deal with it too but on the witness' statement (the owner of the parked car), she put YES to whether she thinks i should be prosecuted or not so i guess that might be why. seeing this is quite minor in practical terms, would i be able to argue a case for a short period of disqualification instead of points? how can i do this and what would i be able to say in mitigation |
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Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 00:34
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
would i be able to argue a case for a short period of disqualification instead of points? how can i do this and what would i be able to say in mitigation You could try but I don’t see any of the offences being serious enough to warrant an outright ban. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 00:37
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35 Joined: 6 Apr 2018 Member No.: 97,406 |
would i be able to argue a case for a short period of disqualification instead of points? how can i do this and what would i be able to say in mitigation You could try but I don’t see any of the offences being serious enough to warrant an outright ban. i would much prefer to be disqualified for up to 56 days than to risk getting points and potentially losing my licence for over a year as for mitigation, what can i say? any ideas? |
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Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 01:42
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35 Joined: 6 Apr 2018 Member No.: 97,406 |
APOLOGIES FOR A MISTAKE
First page actually says MG4E Postal Requisition which I believe is different to a summons? Apparently a PR mustn't be issued after more than 6 months which it was - is this true? |
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Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 06:12
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
i would much prefer to be disqualified for up to 56 days than to risk getting points and potentially losing my licence for over a year If you got more points the standard totting ban is six months, so losing it for over a year is vanishingly unlikely. As for what you can say in mitigation, nothing at all, you admit hitting a car, knowing you had done it and still fleeing the scene, I can’t see anything you can say that minimises that, it looks like a clear attempt to avoid your obligations (legal and moral). As above the Police usually leave theses cases to insurers so would speculate that the amount of damage caused or the way you responded decided to make them take the more punitive approach, you mentioned an interview, did you,get an S172 notice in the post first? If your response to that was less than helpful if may explain the interview and court action. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 07:17
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 761 Joined: 16 Jun 2010 From: sw11 Member No.: 38,303 |
Those would be costs of the prosecution, not a fine. I doubt you’ll lose your licence through totting up, as that requires you to accumulate 12 points. Where offences are committed on the same occasion you normally only receive points for the most serious - in this case fail to stop, which carries 5 - 10 points. You might, therefore, get away with 5 points (or the court might impose more). I am surprised the case has got this far - normally matters like this are dealt with by the police obtaining your details and then leaving it to the insurance companies to sort out. Having held his licence for less than 2 years it will be revoked if the OP receives 6 points or more? -------------------- PePiPoo will likely close in October due to issues beyond the control of any contributor to this forum.
You are encouraged to seek advice at https://www.ftla.uk/speeding-and-other-criminal-offences/ where the vast majority of the experts here have moved over to already. |
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Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 07:18
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
As a new driver it's 6 points that will see a revocation. (Not strictly a ban)
In regards to earnings, there's a minimum figure of £120/week. Am I also eligible for free legal representation/help? No. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 07:25
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
As a new driver it's 6 points that will see a revocation. (Not strictly a ban) In regards to earnings, there's a minimum figure of £120/week. Am I also eligible for free legal representation/help? No. Some insurance policies cover legal advice. You are unlikely to get disqualification instead of points, apart from none of the offences appearing to be serious enough, courts are advised not to give disqualification to avoid revocation of new drivers. -------------------- |
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Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 07:32
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Some insurance policies cover legal advice. True - worth checking. I think the OP was referring to 'Legal Aid'. This post has been edited by Jlc: Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 07:33 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 11:01
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
Some insurance policies cover legal advice. True - worth checking. I think the OP was referring to 'Legal Aid'. So do I, but he may not have considered the possibility that his insurers might help so, as you say, worth checking. -------------------- |
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Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 12:42
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35 Joined: 6 Apr 2018 Member No.: 97,406 |
I don't have legal help covered in my policy. Yes I did receive a NIP back in August or September. My main concern now is that the incident happened in August but I didn't get a postal requisition till April, which is more than 6 months after it happened.
Criminal Justice Act 2003 29 New method of instituting proceedings (1)A public prosecutor may institute criminal proceedings against a person by issuing a document (a “written charge”) which charges the person with an offence. (2)Where a public prosecutor issues a written charge, it must at the same time issue a document (a “requisition”) which requires the person to appear before a magistrates' court to answer the written charge. (3)The written charge and requisition must be served on the person concerned, and a copy of both must be served on the court named in the requisition. (4)In consequence of subsections (1) to (3), a public prosecutor is not to have the power to lay an information for the purpose of obtaining the issue of a summons under section 1 of the Magistrates' Courts Act 1980 (c. 43). (5)In this section “public prosecutor” means— (a)a police force or a person authorised by a police force to institute criminal proceedings, Then the The Criminal Procedure Rules 2015 says (3) An authorised prosecutor who issues a written charge must notify the court officer immediately. (4) A single document may contain— (a)more than one information; or (b)more than one written charge. (5) Where an offence can be tried only in a magistrates’ court, then unless other legislation otherwise provides— (a)a prosecutor must serve an information on the court officer or present it to the court; or (b)an authorised prosecutor must issue a written charge, not more than 6 months after the offence alleged. My offences can only be tried in a magistrates court I believe and the information wasn't issued to me within 6 months - does this actually mean they can't do anything? The envelope says it was posted on the 5th of April and the latest signature was on behalf of the prosecutor on the 4th of April on the "notice to defendant: proof by written statement" sheet, all of which is outside of the 6 month period |
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Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 15:54
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
It doesn't matter when you got the requisition, what counts is when they issued it. What date is printed on the paperwork?
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 16:58
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35 Joined: 6 Apr 2018 Member No.: 97,406 |
It doesn't matter when you got the requisition, what counts is when they issued it. What date is printed on the paperwork? Timeline of events Accident on 17th of August 2017 NIP received like 2 weeks later Police interview in December 2017 Postal requisition is DATED as 14th February 2018 Postal requisition and charges sent out on 5th April 2018 (says this on the envelope) Received in the post on 6th April 2018 The definition of 'issue' according to dictionary.com is 'the act of sending out or putting forth; promulgation; distribution:' It wasn't sent out to me until the 5th of April 2018, nearly 8 months after the accident so surely nothing can be done? |
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Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 17:03
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
It wasn't sent out to me until the 5th of April 2018, nearly 8 months after the accident so surely nothing can be done? You’re not the first one to think that. So far as I know, it’s been rejected in courts so far. I believe an appeal to the High Court is pending, which should resolve it one way or another. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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