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Shoal Enforcement Parking Charge, Should I pay?!
luke1081
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 10:38
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I live in a block of flats with allocated parking bays. The development in SW London contracts parking enforcement out to Shoal Enforcement. Came to my car this morning to find a penalty charge for £120 (£75 if paid before 5pm tonight). Unfortunately, it seems like my permit had either gone missing/slipped from windscreen or been stolen so it was not showing in the windscreen. I have parked here for a year, no problems, with the permit showing. Has anything changed in the laws since the clamping ban? Ie. should I pay or appeal or ignore?

So many thanks guys - heard a lot of good things about this forum!
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post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 10:38
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Basfordlad
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 10:40
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You must certainly not pay.

You can safely ignore it and treat it like any other flyers stuck to your car
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Concrete Jungle
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 10:43
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What does your lease say, do you own your parking space? Can you scan and upload the speculative invoice containing unenforceable penalty clauses? Both sides with any personal details, reg no, ref no etc blanked out. I would initially ignore Shoal if I was you, keep everything you get from them together in a safe place.


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When posting on pepipoo do not reveal any information that may enable private parking companies to identify you. They DO trawl this forum. Redact your name, address, pcn number, date of alleged contravention, date on speculative invoice, vehicle reg, vehicle picture, time you allegedly entered car park, time you allegedly left car park, time limit on the car park, the amount of time you allegedly overstay and the address / location of the car park. Also redact any barcodes or QR codes (if present)
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prosnap
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 10:45
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The judge in a recent County court case ruled that parking companies are simply contractors and have no legal right to claim money from car park users. This basic principle applies to every company and every ticket.
Obviously, parking companies don't want you to know that!

Unless it is a company car or lease/hire car, I would advise you to ignore it!


At least you did the right thing in checking the validity of the ticket before just paying it.
You would be surprised at the amount of people who just pay up without checking if they actually need to, helping to support the posting of even more tickets!


Out of the 1.8 million private parking invoices issued last year only 49 were heard before a court and the parking companies lost half of those.


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ManxRed
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 10:48
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Shoal are not even AOS members, so they shouldn't even be able to find out who you are from the DVLA.


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Broadsword
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 10:49
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Have a look at this link

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/9998893.Co...lives_a_misery/

Also, Shoal have recently been reported by the DVLA no less to Trading Standards for falsely misrepresenting that they have DVLA access (which they don't)
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luke1081
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 10:56
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Our Tenancy agreement says the following:

The Tenant promises the Landlord as follows: 3(q)Car Parking
(i) To park private vehicle(s) only at the Property.
(ii) To park in the space allocated to the Property, if one forms part of the Tenancy.
(iii) To park in the garage or the driveway to the Property if applicable.
(iv) To keep any garage, driveway, or parking space free of oil and to pay for the removal and
cleaning of any spillage caused by a vehicle of the Tenant, his family, contractors or visitors.
(v) To remove all vehicles belonging to the Tenant, his family or visitors at the end of the
Tenancy.
(vi) Not to park any vehicle at the Property which is not in road worthy condition and fully taxed.


The allocated bay forms part of our rental charge. We own it efeectively, and pay for it as part of our service charge. The permit has simply gone missing overnight. I have contacted the owner of the development to see if he has any advice too.

I have attached a pic of the charge notice (it is from Google but is exactly the same wording etc) and the signs in the car park

This post has been edited by luke1081: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 11:05
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Gan
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 11:01
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I wouldn't put it past Shoal to check that permits are securely in place by shaking the car in case a gust of wind might cause them to fall off the dashboard.

In any case, it's the terms of your lease that give you permission to park, not the display of the permit.
In my view, a reputable company would have a list of cars and the permit saves them the bother of checking.

Were Shoal previously employed as clampers or have they recently been awarded the contract ?

As clampers they must have resulted in a lot of complaints.
If they're new, the developers haven't made the most basic checks.

Either way they're idiots to employ such a disreputable company.

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Jlc
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 11:32
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QUOTE (luke1081 @ Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 10:38) *
penalty charge for £120 (£75 if paid before 5pm tonight).

Take the £0 option, paid never.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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luke1081
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 12:46
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Is there anything to suggest that these penalties are totally un-enforcable anyway, because all their signs (see post above) are out of date, talking about clamping etc?

This post has been edited by luke1081: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 12:59
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Basfordlad
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 12:48
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QUOTE (luke1081 @ Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 12:46) *
Is there anything to suggest that these penalties are totally un-enforcable anyway, because all they're signs (see post above) are out of date, talking about clamping etc?


They are not enforceable so worry not
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Hotel Oscar 87
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 13:19
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I know Shoal well and have had several dealings with them over the years so here is some of the background. They "left" the BPA in December 2011 after the well known incident in Portsmouth where their employee clamped two unmarked police vehicles at the back of Gunwharf Quays. He was subsequently convicted at Magistrates Court of Obstruct Police and failing to display his SIA licence.

The sign and the paperwork are simply rehashes of their old paperwork that would appear not to have been update to take into account their inability to obtain DVLA data and POFA 2012.

The company has recently moved its registered office to a lock-up workshop unit in the Langstone area of Havant and have also operated from the premises of a sister company - A1 Recovery Ltd - in New Lane, Havant adjacent to the railway crossing (used to be Wessex Construction yard). From there the owner - of Shoal and A1 - could have walked home for lunch.

Shoal have always avoided court - except when they were on the receiving end. On that occasion they lost and were ordered to return a car they had clamped and retained at the A1 Recovery yard. Mr Eames has displayed a slightly eccentric attitude to his work in the past by holding a weekly draw for those who had fallen victim to his clampers with the prize being a free weekend at Butlins in Bognor (I'm not joking - honestly).

Here is the photo that accompanied the write-up in the Portsmouth Evening News at the time - although the story has long since disappeared.



The follicly challenged chap is none other than Michael Edward Eames, late of a certain garage in Petersfield; Koi & Co (Tropical Fish) in Emsworth and a couple of security-linked businesses all of which have gone through the hoop.

This post has been edited by Hotel Oscar 87: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 13:22


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Concrete Jungle
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 13:34
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QUOTE (luke1081 @ Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 12:46) *
Is there anything to suggest that these penalties are totally un-enforcable anyway, because all their signs (see post above) are out of date, talking about clamping etc?

Read this

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=at...st&id=16231

Then this

http://www.tribunals.gov.uk/financeandtax/...ices_v_hmrc.pdf


--------------------
VCS v Ibbotson
Excel v Hetherington - Jakeman
ParkingEye v Riyaz Patel
Mayhook v National Car Parks & Nigel Barrington - Fuller

When posting on pepipoo do not reveal any information that may enable private parking companies to identify you. They DO trawl this forum. Redact your name, address, pcn number, date of alleged contravention, date on speculative invoice, vehicle reg, vehicle picture, time you allegedly entered car park, time you allegedly left car park, time limit on the car park, the amount of time you allegedly overstay and the address / location of the car park. Also redact any barcodes or QR codes (if present)
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luke1081
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 13:34
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I do worry, that's always been a problem of mine. What can I expect to happen if I ignore? How many letters and when will these come? I am now slightly worried about reparking my car in the same bay in case they tow it away or something!
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DBC
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 13:40
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Towing away has also been made illegal.

This post has been edited by DBC: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 13:41
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Concrete Jungle
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 13:52
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QUOTE (luke1081 @ Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 13:34) *
I do worry, that's always been a problem of mine. What can I expect to happen if I ignore? How many letters and when will these come? I am now slightly worried about reparking my car in the same bay in case they tow it away or something!


Towing away would be against the law. Was your flat bought from the developer by your landlord, who you rent the flat from? I have not seen any threatograms from Shoal yet. If you ignore them 99.999% of the time they give up. Every now and again one chances court.

Last year in the region of 500,000 to 600,000 private parking invoices went unpaid. Of those tickets only 49 went before a judge. Out of those 49 the Private Parking Companies lost 25 cases. Faced with a proper pepipoo defence you have very, very, very little to worry about. If you don't turn up at court or say prove I was the driver ner, ner, nerr, nerr the judge won't be impressed.


--------------------
VCS v Ibbotson
Excel v Hetherington - Jakeman
ParkingEye v Riyaz Patel
Mayhook v National Car Parks & Nigel Barrington - Fuller

When posting on pepipoo do not reveal any information that may enable private parking companies to identify you. They DO trawl this forum. Redact your name, address, pcn number, date of alleged contravention, date on speculative invoice, vehicle reg, vehicle picture, time you allegedly entered car park, time you allegedly left car park, time limit on the car park, the amount of time you allegedly overstay and the address / location of the car park. Also redact any barcodes or QR codes (if present)
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ManxRed
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 14:05
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Unless they get your name and address by dubious means (e.g. the Mgmt Co breaching the DPA) then you'll get no letters at all. Shoal cannot apply to the DVLA for your details.

Private Clamping is now illegal in England and Wales.

This post has been edited by ManxRed: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 14:05


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WageSlave
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 15:09
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QUOTE (Hotel Oscar 87 @ Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 14:19) *
Mr Eames has displayed a slightly eccentric attitude to his work in the past by holding a weekly draw for those who had fallen victim to his clampers with the prize being a free weekend at Butlins in Bognor (I'm not joking - honestly).

Here is the photo that accompanied the write-up in the Portsmouth Evening News at the time - although the story has long since disappeared.


His lunatic idea is still mentioned on the Metro's website - complete with a slightly larger version of the photograph of the squinty bald-headed wee clamper.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/645641-clamper...vers-who-pay-up

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Lynnzer
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 15:58
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QUOTE (WageSlave @ Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 15:09) *
QUOTE (Hotel Oscar 87 @ Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 14:19) *
Mr Eames has displayed a slightly eccentric attitude to his work in the past by holding a weekly draw for those who had fallen victim to his clampers with the prize being a free weekend at Butlins in Bognor (I'm not joking - honestly).

Here is the photo that accompanied the write-up in the Portsmouth Evening News at the time - although the story has long since disappeared.


His lunatic idea is still mentioned on the Metro's website - complete with a slightly larger version of the photograph of the squinty bald-headed wee clamper.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/645641-clamper...vers-who-pay-up

Maybe you could imprint a picture of his baldy headed face on the dartboard down the local boozer



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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 16:01
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QUOTE (luke1081 @ Wed, 31 Oct 2012 - 13:34) *
I do worry, that's always been a problem of mine. What can I expect to happen if I ignore? How many letters and when will these come? I am now slightly worried about reparking my car in the same bay in case they tow it away or something!



Nothing can happen at all because towing is illegal and Shoal canot get your data from the DVLA.
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