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[NIP Wizard] NIP 4 months late claiming they have complied with requirement to serve NIP within 14 days
bigdaddy1969
post Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 12:17
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2018
Date of the NIP: - 137 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 138 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - New Cut Lane, Halsall
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 6
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons -

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The first NIP to the Registered Keeper must arrive within 14 days unless there is a valid reason why that was not possible, for example a recent change of details.

    This link will take you to the advice provided by the RAC's legal team.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sun, 06 Jan 2019 12:10:40 +0000

So this NIP arrived yesterday for an alleged offence on 20th August but it contains a box in which it states:

"Please be advised we have already complied with the requirement to serve a Notice of Intended Prosecution on the last known keeper of this vehicle within 14 days of the alleged offence. You are now required to respond to the S172 request for information as noted below."

This is the first Ive heard of it.

I assume I have to supply the S172 details but should I also send a letter with it?
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post Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 12:17
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peterguk
post Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 12:31
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How long have you owned the vehicle?

What is the exact date of offence?

What's the DOC REF DATE on p2 of the V5C?

This post has been edited by peterguk: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 12:32


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bigdaddy1969
post Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 12:39
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How long have you owned the vehicle? 4 years

What is the exact date of offence? 20/08/18

What's the DOC REF DATE on p2 of the V5C? don't know where it is currently but Ive been at the same address for 3 years and received other DVLA/ NIPs at this address

Thanks
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The Rookie
post Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 13:19
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The first step is to check your V5c, is the address exactly correct, and then check the date by the ‘docref’ towards the bottom of page two when the DVLA last updated details.

We’ve seen cases where the address was subtly wrong, so some post may arrive, other may not. Before starting on a 14 day defence you need to be very sure of your position before passing up a course (if offered this late) or fixed penalty.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Redivi
post Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 13:50
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Whatever you discover, send the reply so that it arrives on about Day 26

Make sure you keep a copy and ask the Post Office for a certificate of sending

I wouldn't send a covering letter
It sends the message that you won't accept a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty and invites the police to immediately prosecute

Day 26 is about Day 164 after the offence
If you send the reply with no comment, there's a chance that the police will send a COFP

This can be safely ignored because the deadline to prosecute will expire before the deadline to accept the COFP
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Churchmouse
post Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 15:38
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QUOTE (bigdaddy1969 @ Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 12:39) *
How long have you owned the vehicle? 4 years

What is the exact date of offence? 20/08/18

What's the DOC REF DATE on p2 of the V5C? don't know where it is currently but Ive been at the same address for 3 years and received other DVLA/ NIPs at this address

Have a look for it. The questions are being asked in order to understand why the police think they have complied with the 14-day rule. Their note (which is, AFAIK, unusual) suggests that something unusual is afoot. The inclusion of their note suggests that this NIP is not a "reminder", but that they had sent to original NIP to a different address. Why would they do that if the V5C is correct?

--Churchmouse
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bigdaddy1969
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 12:52
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QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 15:38) *
QUOTE (bigdaddy1969 @ Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 12:39) *
How long have you owned the vehicle? 4 years

What is the exact date of offence? 20/08/18

What's the DOC REF DATE on p2 of the V5C? don't know where it is currently but Ive been at the same address for 3 years and received other DVLA/ NIPs at this address

Have a look for it. The questions are being asked in order to understand why the police think they have complied with the 14-day rule. Their note (which is, AFAIK, unusual) suggests that something unusual is afoot. The inclusion of their note suggests that this NIP is not a "reminder", but that they had sent to original NIP to a different address. Why would they do that if the V5C is correct?

--Churchmouse


hi so I found my V5 and the address is 100% correct on it.

Ive now received another letter "SECTION 172 REQUEST FOR INFORMATION - REMINDER" DATED 27/01/19 GIVING 7 DAYS TO REPLY....

So I assume I should complete this and return without covering letter?

Thanks

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Darkatmosphere
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 13:54
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QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 15:38) *
QUOTE (bigdaddy1969 @ Sun, 6 Jan 2019 - 12:39) *
How long have you owned the vehicle? 4 years

What is the exact date of offence? 20/08/18

What's the DOC REF DATE on p2 of the V5C? don't know where it is currently but Ive been at the same address for 3 years and received other DVLA/ NIPs at this address

Have a look for it. The questions are being asked in order to understand why the police think they have complied with the 14-day rule. Their note (which is, AFAIK, unusual) suggests that something unusual is afoot. The inclusion of their note suggests that this NIP is not a "reminder", but that they had sent to original NIP to a different address. Why would they do that if the V5C is correct?

--Churchmouse

Wrong address right number plate, perhaps the op lives in number 15 and they posted it to number 51, and the occupier wrote a letter stating that sorry sir that is Mr X living in 15 xyz, and so they believe they sent the nip correctly.

If not this could be a intentionally misleading letter by the ticketing office concerned, perhaps they know its late and put that to make out they have followed all procedures correctly, that's a wild speculation though, that I hope that I'm completely and utterly wrong on.
What is the doc REF: on page 2 of the V5c op?


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There are a lot of laws in this country, but there isn't any justice.
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NewJudge
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 14:00
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Whatever issues there may or may not be with the timeliness of the NIP you must respond to the S172 request and supply the driver's details. Failure to do so will see you facing a charge which carries six points (particularly not good in your situation with six points already).

As mentioned in post #6, you may be offered a fixed penalty, though I doubt it very much. If not you will face court action and before then you can enquire where the first NIP went to and why.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 15:19
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Having delayed replying, anything but a court appearnece is now unlikely.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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bigdaddy1969
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 15:31
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 15:19) *
Having delayed replying, anything but a court appearnece is now unlikely.


but I'm sending reply by recorded delivery today which mean ill be within 7 days of reminder....
and exactly 28 days from day original NIP was received

you've got me worried now!
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The Rookie
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 15:34
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The point is that you are now too late to be offered a fixed penalty as you could let the case time out.

You’ve been asked the docref date twice now?



--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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peterguk
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 15:36
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QUOTE (bigdaddy1969 @ Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 15:31) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 15:19) *
Having delayed replying, anything but a court appearnece is now unlikely.


but I'm sending reply by recorded delivery today which mean ill be within 7 days of reminder....
and exactly 28 days from day original NIP was received

you've got me worried now!



You ignored the first NIP received a month ago. And now there is little time for proceedings to commence (6 months from date of offence).

All you can do is return the S.172 and see what happens.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 15:36


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Dwain
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 17:24
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Don’t you think it’s odd that a 172 reminder was sent prior to the expiry date of the original request, it’s almost as if someone has their eye on this case.

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The Slithy Tove
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 18:16
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QUOTE (Dwain @ Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 17:24) *
Don’t you think it’s odd that a 172 reminder was sent prior to the expiry date of the original request, it’s almost as if someone has their eye on this case.

Hardly. They send a reminder so that the recipient can still reply within the 28 days of the original S172 request they received. Sending it after would mean the recipient would technically have Failed To Furnish, even if they don't pursue it.
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bigdaddy1969
post Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 15:02
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So I sent my reply by Special Delivery within the specified time frames and have received a letter saying:

"We are in receipt of your recent correspondence where you admit to being the driver on connection with an alleged offence of speeding

Excess speed is a summary offence and any prosecution must be commenced with six months of the alleged offence, because of the timescales involved in this particular case we are unable to send you a Conditional Offer on Fixed Penalty and instead the matter must be referred to the Magistrates Court

We will commend proceedings for this offence and you will receive details of the case in due course"

Yours faithfully

Customer Services Team Leader"

ALSO: I THINK I MADE A MASSIVE COCK UP AND MY V5 ACTUALLY IS OUT OF DATE WITH THE WRONG ADDRESS!!!
I CHECKED WITH DVLA WEBSITE AND THEY HAVE THE CORRECT ADDRESS FOR MY DRIVING LICENCE BUT I USSPOE THAT DOESN'T MATTER

ALSO...

The Alleged offence was 20/08/18 meaning they have 13 days to commence proceedings?

Any advice please?
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NeverMind
post Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 15:32
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QUOTE (bigdaddy1969 @ Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 12:52) *
hi so I found my V5 and the address is 100% correct on it.


and

QUOTE (bigdaddy1969 @ Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 15:02) *
ALSO: I THINK I MADE A MASSIVE COCK UP AND MY V5 ACTUALLY IS OUT OF DATE WITH THE WRONG ADDRESS!!!


rolleyes.gif

This is why we always like to double check smile.gif


At court, you could ask to be fined at the Fixed Penalty level, as you were unable to take it up. Although if the V5 cockup is of your own making, then the court may not be sympathetic to this plea.

This post has been edited by NeverMind: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 15:34
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bigdaddy1969
post Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 15:54
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QUOTE (NeverMind @ Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 15:32) *
QUOTE (bigdaddy1969 @ Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 12:52) *
hi so I found my V5 and the address is 100% correct on it.


and

QUOTE (bigdaddy1969 @ Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 15:02) *
ALSO: I THINK I MADE A MASSIVE COCK UP AND MY V5 ACTUALLY IS OUT OF DATE WITH THE WRONG ADDRESS!!!


rolleyes.gif

This is why we always like to double check smile.gif


At court, you could ask to be fined at the Fixed Penalty level, as you were unable to take it up. Although if the V5 cockup is of your own making, then the court may not be sympathetic to this plea.


oh maaaan

and how much is a fine for 37mph in a 30?

and how many points?
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Jlc
post Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 16:12
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Sentencing guideline (for a guilty plea) is 3 points and 33% of weekly earnings, costs of £85 and surcharge of 10% of the fine (min £30).

As already noted, you can ask for them to sentence at a lower level, potentially to £70+£30 surcharge (and no costs order).

From the sentencing guidelines:

QUOTE
where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence
itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point
should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be
imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in
these circumstances.


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 01:12
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While it’s of the OPs making it’s still for unreasons unconnected with the offence.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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