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SJP Notice. I did reply with driver identification., Threads merged
Sussexgirl
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 11:32
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Hi all,

On 30th Jan my car was caught on a camera doing 37mph in a 30.
Letter regarding this was sent on 5th Feb.
I sent the driver details back asap.
(I was pregnant at the time and just found out my "partner" was having an affair. We had gone for a drive (he was driving) to talk rather than being stuck in the house. He even asked me to take the offence and do the speeding course for him as I had more free time. Obviously I said no way and furiously filled the form out and posted it off)
Fast forward to 17th September and an SJP comes to me. For speeding and failing to give drivers details!
The police have enclosed the pictures and luckily you can see the driver is male.
What do I do with regards to the plea? Any advice would be great.
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post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 11:32
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peterguk
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 11:38
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From what you say, it appears your driver nomination never arrived.

As you were not the driver, you can't do a deal with the prosecutor as is often recommended, and defending the S.172 charge is going to be difficult.

Did you get proof of postage?

This post has been edited by peterguk: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 11:38


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Sussexgirl
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 11:41
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No I didn't. I just filled out the back of the notice of intended prosecution and posted it.
Stupid yes but all of a sudden I was pregnant, on my own with 2 children already and looking for a new home.
Am I screwed on this?
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Jlc
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 13:00
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QUOTE (Sussexgirl @ Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 12:41) *
Am I screwed on this?

Not screwed but it makes it harder. You will have to convince the court you did respond. Whilst there's no requirement for reminders you can obviously state that you supplied the details (different address?) and did not expect to hear anything more. Some Forces do send reminders so you can play on that - you had no reason to believe your nomination wasn't received.

Pleading not guilty will require your attendance at court. As the photo's show you were not the driver it assists in that you had no reason not to respond - as you did know who was driving.

The penalty of failing to furnish is higher than the underlying charge - 6 points. Unfortunately (perhaps), the driver has escaped all punishment as it's too late to name the driver or pursue the underlying offence.


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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southpaw82
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 13:08
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A bad situation all around. Do you have any witnesses who can corroborate that you responded and sent the notice back? Even if they can corroborate parts of your story, such as completing the notice, putting it in the envelope etc it bolsters your account. It seems like you’d have no reason not to return the notice - it doesn’t seem like you’d have wanted to protect your ex from the consequences.

Your only real options here are to fight or fold. Fight and you may be (and ought to be, on your account) be acquitted. Fail and it’s six points, a fine of roughly 150% of your weekly income, a surcharge of 10% of the fine (min £30) and costs of several hundred pounds.

Fold and it’s the same as above but the fine would be reduced by 1/3 and the costs would be £85.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Sussexgirl
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 13:49
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Thank you.
I don't want to fold as it's the principle of it (perhaps not the best attitude for a possible court hearing) I don't want to take the fall for him angry.gif
My address hasn't changed as I am still at the house. There were definitely no reminders.
Could I put him as a witness if he would admit it was him driving?
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peterguk
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 13:51
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QUOTE (Sussexgirl @ Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 14:49) *
Could I put him as a witness if he would admit it was him driving?

If the photo shows it wasn't you, that is all that matters. Calling him will add nothing to your case.


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southpaw82
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 14:03
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QUOTE (Sussexgirl @ Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 14:49) *
Could I put him as a witness if he would admit it was him driving?

You could. Whether he would give any useful evidence is another matter. What would you be calling him to say?


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The Rookie
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 14:37
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They can’t convict you of speeding, they have no evidence you were driving.

They can convict you of failing to provide details, who was driving isn’t really relevant to that except it’s quite clear you personally didn’t have anything to gain, and given your situation at the time arguably would have been overjoyed to name him.



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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
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Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
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Jlc
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 14:38
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If he could evidence the filling in of the form and entering the postal system would be good... wink.gif

Fortunately perverting the course of justice didn't occur. The cheek!

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 14:39


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Sussexgirl
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 14:49
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Haha I know. I couldn't believe he even suggested it. I wouldn't have done it even if he hadn't been having it away with someone else.
The black and white photocopy that I have of the pictures is very obvious to me that it's a male. Would they have the actual original photo image that I presume is even clearer?
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Jlc
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 15:08
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Almost certainly, but the thrust of any defence is that you did nominate the driver and posted the reply.

(Not being the driver may only assist in showing you had no reason not to reply)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Sussexgirl
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 16:07
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Ok,so I'll go with not guilty and go to court (gulp)
So they may drop the speeding but still with hold the part where I didn't give details? Or in a miracle case aquit me of both?
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Jlc
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 16:30
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You cannot be convicted of the speeding. (Not least as it wasn't you!)

Such charges are 'dual listed' to give the defendant the opportunity to 'plea bargain' (the more serious charge for the lessor) - but only if they were driving.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 16:31


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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mdann52
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 16:43
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Silly question, but did you only name one person on the form, fill in all the boxes and didn't add any comments indicating any doubt over the driver (ie. I think it was me)?
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Logician
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 16:54
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QUOTE (mdann52 @ Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 17:43) *
Silly question, but did you only name one person on the form, fill in all the boxes and didn't add any comments indicating any doubt over the driver (ie. I think it was me)?


or in this case, "I think it was him"

If your ex will come to court and say he knows you posted the reply nominating him as driver, or were certainly intending to, then that would be helpful. If he cannot say that, then there is nothing he could do to help even if he was willing to.



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Sussexgirl
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 17:16
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No I just put him. I know it was him.

Can I make any kind of plea bargain as I wasn't the driver? Or do I just have to accept that I will be done for not supplying details as I have no proof, except that it is him in the picture...
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The Rookie
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 17:40
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What sort of plea bargain? The only bargain is to plead guilty to speeding, but you know you weren’t and the photo shows you weren’t.

So you are left defending the S172 on the basis that you did reply and it wasn’t reasonably practicable for you to be aware that they hadn’t received it.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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disgrunt
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 17:47
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You definitely posted the reply? Or could you have left the filled in reply by the door to post next time you went out, and it disappeared meaning you forgot all about it, but believe you posted it?

What I'm getting at is could your ex have disposed of it whilst you believed it was posted?
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andy_foster
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 19:33
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Is there a statement from a CTO tubby stating what was sent, etc.?


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Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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