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PCN Contravention 30 Parked for longer than permitted - Ealing Council
qwerty1
post Wed, 14 Dec 2016 - 00:18
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Hi all,

Wondering if anyone can help with a PCN Contravention 30: Parked for longer than permitted.

I have looked over the PCN and done a bit of research but couldn't find anything conclusive. The PCN details mostly seem accurate, except for the observed time. It shows it was observed for 5 minutes (9:47 to 9:52) which is well under the 30 minutes parking that is allowed for free.

So am I correct, or incorrect in thinking more evidence is required to show if the car was parked for longer than 30 minutes?

Should I contest based upon this, or is there another factor?

Thanks in advanced.

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This post has been edited by qwerty1: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 - 00:34
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post Wed, 14 Dec 2016 - 00:18
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Mad Mick V
post Wed, 14 Dec 2016 - 08:13
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Here?:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.506766,-0...3312!8i6656

As a designated parking space you will have 40 mins because of the new grace time legislation.

The only way you are going to research this is request the CEO's notes and see what photos are on the Councils website.

Mick
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qwerty1
post Thu, 15 Dec 2016 - 20:50
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Thanks for that Mick.

Yes that's the correct location.

I have looked on the council website, they've provided only photo evidence with all photos taken within 1 minute. I have challenged on these grounds, and requested the CEO's notes and all photos that relate to the incident. Hope that's the right thing..?\

Thanks
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DancingDad
post Thu, 15 Dec 2016 - 21:09
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QUOTE (qwerty1 @ Thu, 15 Dec 2016 - 20:50) *
Thanks for that Mick.

Yes that's the correct location.

I have looked on the council website, they've provided only photo evidence with all photos taken within 1 minute. I have challenged on these grounds, and requested the CEO's notes and all photos that relate to the incident. Hope that's the right thing..?\

Thanks


It's a start, see what comes back.

Generally, CEOs patrol limited time areas and note what vehicles are parked on each patrol.
Usual practice is to record valve positions which should show if the vehicle has been moved.
Then if they find the same vehicle on the next visit, they serve the PCN and take photos.

In that respect, 1 minute obs is fine as are the photos taken when the PCN served.

What council now need to do is show, by CEO notes, that you were parked for longer then permitted.
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SX4
post Thu, 15 Dec 2016 - 22:27
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Same answer as DD . The CEO patrols a street and logs every vehicle into HHC (hand held computer) recording VRM and valve positions and this can not be changed later as the hhc will not let CEO do it . Then after 40 mins have lapsed the CEO will patrol the street again and if the vehicle with the same VRM and valve positions same is still there a PCN code 30 will be issued and photographs taken usually of vehicle , signs ,road markings, and valve positions, . Photos are not taken of every car at initial log in of every vehicle as the memory of the HHC would be soon used up if there were 30 cars parked on street . so photos are only taken of vehicles who are issued a PCN ?
If CEOs electronic notes that can not be changed after input show original valve positions same as issue and photos personally I would pay discount .
If no electronic notes or photos you have got a chance but photos are secondary evidence, the CEOs notes are primary evidence.
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hcandersen
post Thu, 15 Dec 2016 - 22:56
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The date of the PCN was?
The date of your challenge was?

There's no point hiding this info, it does your case more harm than good.

And were you parked for > 40 minutes?

Always acknowledge what the authority hold as objective info.
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qwerty1
post Thu, 9 Mar 2017 - 22:57
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Update on this, the council got back to me after almost 3 months. Thank you for everyones comments so far.

Their response is they have declined my challenge. There is no photo or image of the CEO's notes, but it states that he saw the car at 8:47, and the ticket was issued at 9:52, which is beyond the 30 minutes.

Do I have any avenue to challenge as I am now into the formal representation (and full rate) as I didn't notice the councils response till 14 days has passed (the amount of time for a reduced rate). I have not been issued an NTO although it has only just passed the 14 days, is it normal for this to be received via post?

From my research, it seems a formal representation costs me nothing (other than time), but I am wondering along what lines to proceed and if their 'evidence' will hold up. Thanks.
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Incandescent
post Thu, 9 Mar 2017 - 23:14
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Post up their response please. Them taking so long to reply is potentially prejudicial to you appealing as the time elapsed means your memory fades of the event, and the ability to collect evidence is compromised. I would say they have behaved disgracefully but then, this is normal London council behaviour. Par for the course as they say. I would take them to London Tribunals.
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qwerty1
post Thu, 9 Mar 2017 - 23:26
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Thanks, I do find it frustrating they took so long to respond. Their reply now attached.
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Mad Mick V
post Fri, 10 Mar 2017 - 08:39
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A £30 discounted penalty in London???

I'd be inclined to pay that.

What a bargain!!!

Mick
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 10 Mar 2017 - 11:56
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They reserve the right to disregard any further correspondence before the NTO! They do not have that right. They are not obliged to respond but they cannot didregard


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All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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qwerty1
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 23:35
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Update. This PCN was paid after they declined by appeal
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