PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Penalty for Untaxed - Newly Purchased - Vehicle, Clamped Just Before MOT Appointment
Storm Trooper
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 05:28
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 5 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,777



An un-taxed, used car with no MOT was purchased via an auction website. The private seller issued a signed payment receipt on Sunday evening at 8:00 PM. DVLA was notified online and acknowledged the change of ownership.

The car was delivered that evening to be parked off-road on a forecourt but an unknown vehicle blocked access so the car was parked on the road overnight. The car was already booked in for an MOT early the next morning so it could be taxed immediately thereafter but it was clamped at 9:30 AM.

The clamping fee and surety were paid. When the clamp was removed, an MOT certificate was obtained and the car taxed online backdated to the first of the month. The surety was later refunded.

Two months later a penalty was issued for an untaxed vehicle with an offer of a £70 out-of-court settlement and an option to challenge.

It was not possible to tax the vehicle until an MOT was obtained, both of which would have been done within some 16 hours of purchase had it not been clamped.

In case this is relevant, the buyer is a registered carer of a disabled 97-year old (living at the same address) and requires the use of a car for medical emergencies, of which there is a well-documented history.

Are there any grounds to challenge the penalty and, if so, would it be worth the bother?

This post has been edited by Storm Trooper: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 05:44
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 14)
Advertisement
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 05:28
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
The Rookie
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 06:21
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



Yes, you can state the car was in its way to a pre-booked MOT (you imply it was prebooked anyway), from the auction house to the MOT test station. Expect to have to defend that in court.

A recent thread on this issue
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=123837

I’m not sure what relevance the buyers occupation is?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 08:58
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,735
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



Sounds as if the car was driven from auction house to garage untaxed and no MOT with no pre-booked appointment.

You wouldn't have known what you were buying prior to buying it, and garage not open Sunday evening?

Or have i misunderstood?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nigelbb
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 11:07
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,768
Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,602



QUOTE (peterguk @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 09:58) *
Sounds as if the car was driven from auction house to garage untaxed and no MOT with no pre-booked appointment.

You wouldn't have known what you were buying prior to buying it, and garage not open Sunday evening?

Or have i misunderstood?

The OP said auction site so I assume eBay. As I understood it sometime after that on the Sunday the transaction was completed & the vehicle collected then taken to the garage for the pre-booked MOT on the Monday morning.

If the MOT was pre-booked I think that the OP has a very good defence. The exception for travelling to or from an MOT can sometimes appear a bit of a grey area but the law doesn't state that it needs to be the nearest MOT station or how long the journey may take. As I recall there was a case where it was held that stopping en route was permissible but in this case it looks entirely legit. It's hardly as though the car was found parked up outside their home as it was adjacent to the MOT garage.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 11:25
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,735
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 11:07) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 09:58) *
Sounds as if the car was driven from auction house to garage untaxed and no MOT with no pre-booked appointment.

You wouldn't have known what you were buying prior to buying it, and garage not open Sunday evening?

Or have i misunderstood?

The OP said auction site so I assume eBay. As I understood it sometime after that on the Sunday the transaction was completed & the vehicle collected then taken to the garage for the pre-booked MOT on the Monday morning.

If the MOT was pre-booked I think that the OP has a very good defence. The exception for travelling to or from an MOT can sometimes appear a bit of a grey area but the law doesn't state that it needs to be the nearest MOT station or how long the journey may take. As I recall there was a case where it was held that stopping en route was permissible but in this case it looks entirely legit. It's hardly as though the car was found parked up outside their home as it was adjacent to the MOT garage.


But OP left car on public road untaxed. It's DVLA who have collared him, not the BiB. Almost idetical to the other thread referenced above.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 11:40


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Churchmouse
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 12:00
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,356
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
From: Landan
Member No.: 20,731



QUOTE (peterguk @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 11:25) *
But OP left car on public road untaxed. It's DVLA who have collared him, not the BiB. Almost idetical to the other thread referenced above.

Interestingly, the other thread also confused the road tax offence with a non-existent MOT offence...

The MOT defence is valid in respect of a tax offence; indeed, this was confirmed in the other thread. But whether leaving the vehicle on a road outside of a closed MOT garage is reasonable would be a question of fact, and a different court could easily decide otherwise. I'd pay the £70, personally.

--Churchmouse
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 12:46
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



I'm with Churchmouse on this one, there's a defence for driving to a pre-booked MOT, there's no exemption for parking on a road outside an MOT garage, whether a test is pre-booked or not. Court go either way in court (as the other thread demonstrates) but given a choice of paying £70 or risking several hundred, I'd pay the settlement offer.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 12:49
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 13:46) *
I'm with Churchmouse on this one, there's a defence for driving to a pre-booked MOT, there's no exemption for parking on a road outside an MOT garage, whether a test is pre-booked or not. Court go either way in court (as the other thread demonstrates) but given a choice of paying £70 or risking several hundred, I'd pay the settlement offer.

While I agree with your summary, if the parking is part of the driving to a prebooked MOT then it’s exempted, for example say you have the first appointment and have to wait outside for a bit, how long is allowed? 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day? According to the statute as long as it can be shown to be on its way to a prebooked MOT it should be exempted.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 12:50


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 12:53
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 12:49) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 13:46) *
I'm with Churchmouse on this one, there's a defence for driving to a pre-booked MOT, there's no exemption for parking on a road outside an MOT garage, whether a test is pre-booked or not. Court go either way in court (as the other thread demonstrates) but given a choice of paying £70 or risking several hundred, I'd pay the settlement offer.

While I agree with your summary, if the parking is part of the driving to a prebooked MOT then it’s exempted, for example say you have the first appointment and have to wait outside for a bit, how long is allowed? 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day? According to the statute as long as it can be shown to be on its way to a prebooked MOT it should be exempted.

But that's exactly the problem. If it's 1 minute, while you go to reception to say you've arrived, I'm pretty sure the court would say the exemption applies. If it's a month, I'm equally sure a court would say the exemption does not apply. But leaving the car overnight, I'm not optimistic and at best it could go either way. If it were a £70 / £140 gamble it may be worth the risk, but given the odds (£70 vs better part of a grand) I wouldn't chance it.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bigwizzard
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 13:46
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 13 Jun 2017
From: Bedfordshire
Member No.: 92,480



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 13:53) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 12:49) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 13:46) *
I'm with Churchmouse on this one, there's a defence for driving to a pre-booked MOT, there's no exemption for parking on a road outside an MOT garage, whether a test is pre-booked or not. Court go either way in court (as the other thread demonstrates) but given a choice of paying £70 or risking several hundred, I'd pay the settlement offer.

While I agree with your summary, if the parking is part of the driving to a prebooked MOT then it’s exempted, for example say you have the first appointment and have to wait outside for a bit, how long is allowed? 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day? According to the statute as long as it can be shown to be on its way to a prebooked MOT it should be exempted.

But that's exactly the problem. If it's 1 minute, while you go to reception to say you've arrived, I'm pretty sure the court would say the exemption applies. If it's a month, I'm equally sure a court would say the exemption does not apply. But leaving the car overnight, I'm not optimistic and at best it could go either way. If it were a £70 / £140 gamble it may be worth the risk, but given the odds (£70 vs better part of a grand) I wouldn't chance it.



As the clamp and ticket was issued at 9:30am surely all the OP needs to say is that the car was on the drive overnight, he was about to go to the MoT station but realised, just as he pulled off the drive, that he didn't have his wallet in his pocket so went back in doors.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 14:06
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,572
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



QUOTE (Bigwizzard @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 14:46) *
As the clamp and ticket was issued at 9:30am surely all the OP needs to say is that the car was on the drive overnight, he was about to go to the MoT station but realised, just as he pulled off the drive, that he didn't have his wallet in his pocket so went back in doors.


We a) discourage lying to the police and, b) encourage reading the OP's post, in order to give advice that is relevant



--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 14:33
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,735
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



QUOTE (Bigwizzard @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 13:46) *
As the clamp and ticket was issued at 9:30am surely all the OP needs to say is that the car was on the drive overnight, he was about to go to the MoT station but realised, just as he pulled off the drive, that he didn't have his wallet in his pocket so went back in doors.

He could lie through his teeth, but this forum doesn't get involved in such behaviour.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 17:37
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (Bigwizzard @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 13:46) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 13:53) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 12:49) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 13:46) *
I'm with Churchmouse on this one, there's a defence for driving to a pre-booked MOT, there's no exemption for parking on a road outside an MOT garage, whether a test is pre-booked or not. Court go either way in court (as the other thread demonstrates) but given a choice of paying £70 or risking several hundred, I'd pay the settlement offer.

While I agree with your summary, if the parking is part of the driving to a prebooked MOT then it’s exempted, for example say you have the first appointment and have to wait outside for a bit, how long is allowed? 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day? According to the statute as long as it can be shown to be on its way to a prebooked MOT it should be exempted.

But that's exactly the problem. If it's 1 minute, while you go to reception to say you've arrived, I'm pretty sure the court would say the exemption applies. If it's a month, I'm equally sure a court would say the exemption does not apply. But leaving the car overnight, I'm not optimistic and at best it could go either way. If it were a £70 / £140 gamble it may be worth the risk, but given the odds (£70 vs better part of a grand) I wouldn't chance it.



As the clamp and ticket was issued at 9:30am surely all the OP needs to say is that the car was on the drive overnight, he was about to go to the MoT station but realised, just as he pulled off the drive, that he didn't have his wallet in his pocket so went back in doors.

You're quite right, he could go down this route and ultimately commit perjury, and you could be prosecuted for inciting an offence.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Storm Trooper
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 21:38
Post #14


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 5 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,777



If I'm right in thinking that a challenge would lead to a court hearing then the out-of-court settlement appears to be the best option in this case; the odds are stacked against a favourable judgement.

Thank you for all the replies.


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Storm Trooper
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 12:52
Post #15


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 5 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,777



Updating my previous post to clarify the procedure.

When the OP called the payment line, the operator explained that, in the first instance, a challenge is considered by the DVLA and the driver notified whether it was accepted or rejected.

If the challenge was rejected, the driver can still close the case by paying the original out-of-court settlement amount. The case only goes to Court if the penalty remains unpaid.

In this case, the out-of-court settlement amount was paid.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 22:21
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here