Penalty for Untaxed - Newly Purchased - Vehicle, Clamped Just Before MOT Appointment |
Penalty for Untaxed - Newly Purchased - Vehicle, Clamped Just Before MOT Appointment |
Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 05:28
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 5 Nov 2018 Member No.: 100,777 |
An un-taxed, used car with no MOT was purchased via an auction website. The private seller issued a signed payment receipt on Sunday evening at 8:00 PM. DVLA was notified online and acknowledged the change of ownership.
The car was delivered that evening to be parked off-road on a forecourt but an unknown vehicle blocked access so the car was parked on the road overnight. The car was already booked in for an MOT early the next morning so it could be taxed immediately thereafter but it was clamped at 9:30 AM. The clamping fee and surety were paid. When the clamp was removed, an MOT certificate was obtained and the car taxed online backdated to the first of the month. The surety was later refunded. Two months later a penalty was issued for an untaxed vehicle with an offer of a £70 out-of-court settlement and an option to challenge. It was not possible to tax the vehicle until an MOT was obtained, both of which would have been done within some 16 hours of purchase had it not been clamped. In case this is relevant, the buyer is a registered carer of a disabled 97-year old (living at the same address) and requires the use of a car for medical emergencies, of which there is a well-documented history. Are there any grounds to challenge the penalty and, if so, would it be worth the bother? This post has been edited by Storm Trooper: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 05:44 |
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 05:28
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 06:21
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Yes, you can state the car was in its way to a pre-booked MOT (you imply it was prebooked anyway), from the auction house to the MOT test station. Expect to have to defend that in court.
A recent thread on this issue http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=123837 I’m not sure what relevance the buyers occupation is? -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 08:58
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
Sounds as if the car was driven from auction house to garage untaxed and no MOT with no pre-booked appointment.
You wouldn't have known what you were buying prior to buying it, and garage not open Sunday evening? Or have i misunderstood? -------------------- |
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 11:07
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,768 Joined: 17 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,602 |
Sounds as if the car was driven from auction house to garage untaxed and no MOT with no pre-booked appointment. You wouldn't have known what you were buying prior to buying it, and garage not open Sunday evening? Or have i misunderstood? The OP said auction site so I assume eBay. As I understood it sometime after that on the Sunday the transaction was completed & the vehicle collected then taken to the garage for the pre-booked MOT on the Monday morning. If the MOT was pre-booked I think that the OP has a very good defence. The exception for travelling to or from an MOT can sometimes appear a bit of a grey area but the law doesn't state that it needs to be the nearest MOT station or how long the journey may take. As I recall there was a case where it was held that stopping en route was permissible but in this case it looks entirely legit. It's hardly as though the car was found parked up outside their home as it was adjacent to the MOT garage. -------------------- British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012 |
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 11:25
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
Sounds as if the car was driven from auction house to garage untaxed and no MOT with no pre-booked appointment. You wouldn't have known what you were buying prior to buying it, and garage not open Sunday evening? Or have i misunderstood? The OP said auction site so I assume eBay. As I understood it sometime after that on the Sunday the transaction was completed & the vehicle collected then taken to the garage for the pre-booked MOT on the Monday morning. If the MOT was pre-booked I think that the OP has a very good defence. The exception for travelling to or from an MOT can sometimes appear a bit of a grey area but the law doesn't state that it needs to be the nearest MOT station or how long the journey may take. As I recall there was a case where it was held that stopping en route was permissible but in this case it looks entirely legit. It's hardly as though the car was found parked up outside their home as it was adjacent to the MOT garage. But OP left car on public road untaxed. It's DVLA who have collared him, not the BiB. Almost idetical to the other thread referenced above. This post has been edited by peterguk: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 11:40 -------------------- |
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 12:00
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
But OP left car on public road untaxed. It's DVLA who have collared him, not the BiB. Almost idetical to the other thread referenced above. Interestingly, the other thread also confused the road tax offence with a non-existent MOT offence... The MOT defence is valid in respect of a tax offence; indeed, this was confirmed in the other thread. But whether leaving the vehicle on a road outside of a closed MOT garage is reasonable would be a question of fact, and a different court could easily decide otherwise. I'd pay the £70, personally. --Churchmouse |
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 12:46
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I'm with Churchmouse on this one, there's a defence for driving to a pre-booked MOT, there's no exemption for parking on a road outside an MOT garage, whether a test is pre-booked or not. Court go either way in court (as the other thread demonstrates) but given a choice of paying £70 or risking several hundred, I'd pay the settlement offer.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 12:49
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
I'm with Churchmouse on this one, there's a defence for driving to a pre-booked MOT, there's no exemption for parking on a road outside an MOT garage, whether a test is pre-booked or not. Court go either way in court (as the other thread demonstrates) but given a choice of paying £70 or risking several hundred, I'd pay the settlement offer. While I agree with your summary, if the parking is part of the driving to a prebooked MOT then it’s exempted, for example say you have the first appointment and have to wait outside for a bit, how long is allowed? 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day? According to the statute as long as it can be shown to be on its way to a prebooked MOT it should be exempted. This post has been edited by The Rookie: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 12:50 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 12:53
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I'm with Churchmouse on this one, there's a defence for driving to a pre-booked MOT, there's no exemption for parking on a road outside an MOT garage, whether a test is pre-booked or not. Court go either way in court (as the other thread demonstrates) but given a choice of paying £70 or risking several hundred, I'd pay the settlement offer. While I agree with your summary, if the parking is part of the driving to a prebooked MOT then it’s exempted, for example say you have the first appointment and have to wait outside for a bit, how long is allowed? 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day? According to the statute as long as it can be shown to be on its way to a prebooked MOT it should be exempted. But that's exactly the problem. If it's 1 minute, while you go to reception to say you've arrived, I'm pretty sure the court would say the exemption applies. If it's a month, I'm equally sure a court would say the exemption does not apply. But leaving the car overnight, I'm not optimistic and at best it could go either way. If it were a £70 / £140 gamble it may be worth the risk, but given the odds (£70 vs better part of a grand) I wouldn't chance it. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 13:46
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 13 Jun 2017 From: Bedfordshire Member No.: 92,480 |
I'm with Churchmouse on this one, there's a defence for driving to a pre-booked MOT, there's no exemption for parking on a road outside an MOT garage, whether a test is pre-booked or not. Court go either way in court (as the other thread demonstrates) but given a choice of paying £70 or risking several hundred, I'd pay the settlement offer. While I agree with your summary, if the parking is part of the driving to a prebooked MOT then it’s exempted, for example say you have the first appointment and have to wait outside for a bit, how long is allowed? 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day? According to the statute as long as it can be shown to be on its way to a prebooked MOT it should be exempted. But that's exactly the problem. If it's 1 minute, while you go to reception to say you've arrived, I'm pretty sure the court would say the exemption applies. If it's a month, I'm equally sure a court would say the exemption does not apply. But leaving the car overnight, I'm not optimistic and at best it could go either way. If it were a £70 / £140 gamble it may be worth the risk, but given the odds (£70 vs better part of a grand) I wouldn't chance it. As the clamp and ticket was issued at 9:30am surely all the OP needs to say is that the car was on the drive overnight, he was about to go to the MoT station but realised, just as he pulled off the drive, that he didn't have his wallet in his pocket so went back in doors. |
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 14:06
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
As the clamp and ticket was issued at 9:30am surely all the OP needs to say is that the car was on the drive overnight, he was about to go to the MoT station but realised, just as he pulled off the drive, that he didn't have his wallet in his pocket so went back in doors. We a) discourage lying to the police and, b) encourage reading the OP's post, in order to give advice that is relevant -------------------- |
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 14:33
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
As the clamp and ticket was issued at 9:30am surely all the OP needs to say is that the car was on the drive overnight, he was about to go to the MoT station but realised, just as he pulled off the drive, that he didn't have his wallet in his pocket so went back in doors. He could lie through his teeth, but this forum doesn't get involved in such behaviour. -------------------- |
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 17:37
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I'm with Churchmouse on this one, there's a defence for driving to a pre-booked MOT, there's no exemption for parking on a road outside an MOT garage, whether a test is pre-booked or not. Court go either way in court (as the other thread demonstrates) but given a choice of paying £70 or risking several hundred, I'd pay the settlement offer. While I agree with your summary, if the parking is part of the driving to a prebooked MOT then it’s exempted, for example say you have the first appointment and have to wait outside for a bit, how long is allowed? 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day? According to the statute as long as it can be shown to be on its way to a prebooked MOT it should be exempted. But that's exactly the problem. If it's 1 minute, while you go to reception to say you've arrived, I'm pretty sure the court would say the exemption applies. If it's a month, I'm equally sure a court would say the exemption does not apply. But leaving the car overnight, I'm not optimistic and at best it could go either way. If it were a £70 / £140 gamble it may be worth the risk, but given the odds (£70 vs better part of a grand) I wouldn't chance it. As the clamp and ticket was issued at 9:30am surely all the OP needs to say is that the car was on the drive overnight, he was about to go to the MoT station but realised, just as he pulled off the drive, that he didn't have his wallet in his pocket so went back in doors. You're quite right, he could go down this route and ultimately commit perjury, and you could be prosecuted for inciting an offence. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 21:38
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#14
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 5 Nov 2018 Member No.: 100,777 |
If I'm right in thinking that a challenge would lead to a court hearing then the out-of-court settlement appears to be the best option in this case; the odds are stacked against a favourable judgement.
Thank you for all the replies. |
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Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 12:52
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#15
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 5 Nov 2018 Member No.: 100,777 |
Updating my previous post to clarify the procedure.
When the OP called the payment line, the operator explained that, in the first instance, a challenge is considered by the DVLA and the driver notified whether it was accepted or rejected. If the challenge was rejected, the driver can still close the case by paying the original out-of-court settlement amount. The case only goes to Court if the penalty remains unpaid. In this case, the out-of-court settlement amount was paid. |
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