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NCP PCN - Doncaster Lease Vehicle
Bidshd
post Wed, 20 Feb 2019 - 12:09
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Hi all

We have been issued a PCN from NCP on a company lease vehicle. Alleged incident 01/12/2018, "Final Reminder" 14/02/19

Unidentified driver, ANPR capture

Attached Image

Letter from NCP to Lease Company - Front

Attached Image

Letter from NCP to Lease Company - Back

Attached File  Lease_Company_to_NCP_Redacted.pdf ( 64.58K ) Number of downloads: 70

Letter from Lease Company to NCP

Attached Image

Letter from NCP to Me - Registered Keeper - Front


Attached Image

Letter from NCP to Me - Registered Keeper - Back

There is also a £15 admin charge from the lease company, which is less of a concern at this stage

Can someone give some guidance please as I'm still not up on the processes yet

Thank you in advance

This post has been edited by Bidshd: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 - 14:07
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post Wed, 20 Feb 2019 - 12:09
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ostell
post Wed, 20 Feb 2019 - 13:01
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Could you edit and label those images with what they are and who the are addressed to please.

With the Notice to hirer (the letter to your company that leased the vehicle) was there a copy of the lease conditions etc? How did you get a copy of the original PCN to the lease company and addressed to them, which is what I presume the second image is? Incident date 1/12 and sending 18/12.

The 3rd image would appear to be a final reminder rather than a notice to Hirer.

3 ways to strike at this. The first is that the original PCN was not delivered within 14 days and the second is that the Notice to Hirer did not have the necessary documents included. The third is that the Notice to hirer was not received within the relevant period of 21 days from them being notified of the hirer details.

Just lining the ducks up.

All in all no liability by the look of it

Here's POFA Paragraph 9 for teh original PCN without a windscreen, para 13 for the NCP to Lease company communication and para 14 for the NCP to you communication.

This post has been edited by ostell: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 - 13:05
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Bidshd
post Wed, 20 Feb 2019 - 14:13
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QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 20 Feb 2019 - 13:01) *
Could you edit and label those images with what they are and who the are addressed to please.

With the Notice to hirer (the letter to your company that leased the vehicle) was there a copy of the lease conditions etc? How did you get a copy of the original PCN to the lease company and addressed to them, which is what I presume the second image is? Incident date 1/12 and sending 18/12.

The 3rd image would appear to be a final reminder rather than a notice to Hirer.

3 ways to strike at this. The first is that the original PCN was not delivered within 14 days and the second is that the Notice to Hirer did not have the necessary documents included. The third is that the Notice to hirer was not received within the relevant period of 21 days from them being notified of the hirer details.

Just lining the ducks up.

All in all no liability by the look of it

Here's POFA Paragraph 9 for teh original PCN without a windscreen, para 13 for the NCP to Lease company communication and para 14 for the NCP to you communication.

Thanks for the reply

With the Notice to hirer (the letter to your company that leased the vehicle) was there a copy of the lease conditions etc?
There was no other letter or document included.

How did you get a copy of the original PCN to the lease company and addressed to them, which is what I presume the second image is? Incident date 1/12 and sending 18/12.
I spoke to the lease company this morning regarding the "fine", as they call it, and they offered to send me an email copy of the original letter from NCP

The 3rd image would appear to be a final reminder rather than a notice to Hirer.
This is the letter that we received direct from NCP, albeit to our registered office rather than our trading office

3 ways to strike at this. The first is that the original PCN was not delivered within 14 days and the second is that the Notice to Hirer did not have the necessary documents included. The third is that the Notice to hirer was not received within the relevant period of 21 days from them being notified of the hirer details.
Great news. Would you hit back with both reasons in 1 letter? If you could poste me or point me to a template that would be spectacular!

Just lining the ducks up.
Quack quack

All in all no liability by the look of it
Good to hear, thank you

This post has been edited by Bidshd: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 - 12:34
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Bidshd
post Thu, 21 Feb 2019 - 13:52
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Would this be correct:

Ref PCN XXXXXXXX, VRM XXXXXXXX


Dear Sirs


We are in receipt of the PCN you issued.

Firstly, your original Parking Charge Notice to Keeper was not issued within 14 days of the alleged incident (Your letter to **LEASE COMPANY** is dated 18/12/18).

Secondly, you have issued a Final Reminder and failed to issue a notice to Hirer. No notice to hirer was issued or received within 21 days of NCP being notified of the hirer details (**LEASE COMPANY** letter to NCP dated 31/12/18).

Furthermore, we have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to supply the additional documents mandated by section 14 (2) (a) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to the registered hirer/keeper.

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and we will not be doing so.

Any further communication with us on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and our details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.


Regards
B
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cabbyman
post Thu, 21 Feb 2019 - 14:23
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In reference to the relevant dates, quote PoFA 2012 sched 4 para 9(5) and 14(3), respectively.

Wherever you are using any statute or case law, always back up your statement with the appropriate reference(s).


--------------------
Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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Bidshd
post Wed, 6 Mar 2019 - 11:00
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I've just had a reply back from the Lease Company re SAR and passing on of data, if anyone could comment I would be grateful:

Dear Mr B

Following our telephone conversation, I called you today to discuss your concerns around your data being held by ourselves.

During our call you advised you believe we have provided your personal data to a third party company following a fine. I advised upon receipt of the fine the only information we have provided is the company name and address and no personal data was submitted.

As the agreement with ourselves is a Business agreement we do not hold any personal information unless there was a guarantor form or ID provided at the time of signing the documents However this again would not have been issued to the third party company in question.

If you have any further question, Please do not hesitate to contact me on the below details.

Kind Regards

XXX XXXXXX
CustomerServices XXX
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Bidshd
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 13:17
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I’ve today received a letter from Trace Debt Recovery

Nothing from NCP following my letter as above, sent on 19th day as previously advised (sent recorded signed for delivery, still have receipt/proof of postage)

Any thoughts on the next step?

I’m at hospital at the moment so don’t have all the docs and dates to hand but I think they’ve sent this on the same day I posted my reply

Letter received 11/03/19 from Trace:

Trace letter

Cheers
B

This post has been edited by Bidshd: Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 13:25
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 14:21
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Presuming you sent your appeal to NCP within time, immediate complaint to the BPA that their provider has failed to respond to an appela within 35 days and instead, sent to a debt colelctor.
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Bidshd
post Wed, 13 Mar 2019 - 08:15
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 14:21) *
Presuming you sent your appeal to NCP within time, immediate complaint to the BPA that their provider has failed to respond to an appela within 35 days and instead, sent to a debt colelctor.

Thank you, I’ve done this and awaiting a response. Do I need to contact their debt dogs or just ignore this letter?
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