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LBC from SCS Law on behalf of UK Parking Control Ltd, Letter Before Claim from SCS Law on behalf of UK Parking Control Ltd
langworth
post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 19:39
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Hello

I've received a Letter Before Claim from SCS Law on behalf of UK Parking Control Ltd.

Situation: staying temporarily at a private residence (private residents parking with allocated bays) with a tenant who has a parking permit but no vehicle, and I used his allocated parking bay and with their permission
I displayed a permit "to the best of my recollection" all the time (but realistically maybe not always wink.gif )
Received PCNs for alleged parking violations in a “Designated permit holder’s space without displaying a permit”, and” Not parking correctly within a marked bay”.
On one of the occasions when I was ticketed I was actually in a visitors slot and not in a residents slot at all
But - I did not respond to PCN's because the first time they issued one to me, I complained and they cancelled the charge on presentation of evidence that I had a parking permit.


The Tenant's agreement does not specify any specific parking rights, but the space in question is shown allocated to the flat and I have a residents parking permit.

I've prepared a letter in reply to the LBC based on samples I've seen but thought it wise to get get your opinions first.
The part Im not sure about is that I don't have access to the original Lease therefore can't be sure of Primacy of Contract.
Is it better not to muddy the waters with guesses about Primacy of Contract, and instead rely on the fact that I was parked in an allocated bay with the property holders permission and that I (probably) displayed a permit?

SCS Law
Level 34
25 Canada Square
Canary Wharf
London E14 5LQ


24th September 2018

Dear Sirs

UK Parking Control Ltd – Response to Letter before Claim

I refer to your letter before claim dated 11th September. This is my formal response for the purposes of the Civil Procedure Rules Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims

1. Proposed Claim

1.1 Parking of my vehicle in parking bay “BS” in the car park at <location>, in alleged breach of contract leading to a claim of £1120.00 against me by your Client, UK Parking Control Ltd

2. Preliminary Issues

2.1 The Letter Before Claim appears to be largely generic in format, and does not conform to the Pre Action Protocol for Debt Claims sub-paragraphs 2.1(a),(b),©, 3.1a(iv), 5.1 and 5.2. As solicitors (particularly those engaged, like yourselves, in issuing large numbers of generic claims such as this) you ought to know that you have failed to meet the requirements. Please consider 2.2.1 to 2.2.4 below my formal request for information under the Pre Action Protocol.

2.2 In accordance with the Pre Action Protocol for Debt Claims sub-paragraphs 5.1 and 5.2, please forward details of the following within 30 days of this request:

2.2.1 Copies of un-redacted contracts in place on the relevant dates, showing the chain of authority from the landowner to your Client and establishing their standing to bring this Claim.

2.2.2 Details of the specific signage, with location, wording and font size(s) on which your Client is intending to rely (your mention of “signage throughout the site” is not sufficiently clear).

2.2.3 Photographs of my vehicle in relation to the signage on which your Client is intending to rely.

2.2.4 Any other documents that your Client intends to rely on in court



3. Response to the proposed Claim

3.1 The proposed Claim is disputed in its entirety.

3.1.1 Your letter does not identify the location of the alleged breach of contract, merely listing alleged parking violations in a “Designated permit holder’s space without displaying a permit.”, and” Not parking correctly within a marked bay”.

3.1.2 On all occasions the vehicle was parked in the designated Resident Permit Holder Parking Space “BS” that is allocated to the property, with one exception, where the vehicle was parked in a slot clearly marked “Visitors” and for which no ticket should have been issued at all.

3.1.3 Your Client (UK Parking Control Ltd.) has previously cancelled an alleged parking violation, for this very same vehicle in the very same slot for the same alleged transgression, upon presentation of evidence of possession of the correct parking permit. Your Client should consider this precedent, and their willingness to abandon proceedings on presentation of evidence of right of parking, very carefully.

3.1.4 On all occasions, to the best of the driver’s recollection, a valid permit was visibly displayed.

3.1.5 Judgement as to what does or does not constitute “parking correctly within a marked bay” and the degree to which such alleged trivial and vexatious accusations hold merit, is highly subjective and will be robustly defended.

Property Rights

3.2 The property Lease provides an allocated parking space (bay “BS)”.

3.3 The Lease cannot be varied without the leaseholder’s consent.

3.4 The Lease has not been varied (since parking bay “BS” was allocated to the property) with regard to parking in bay “BS”, neither has it been varied in any other respect related to parking.

3.5 The following actions conflict with my rights to peaceful enjoyment of my property by removing my unfettered right to park in the bay allocated to the property; requiring payment if the driver does not display a permit while parked on the property; binding the driver of the vehicle to a contract with a third party over something already allocated to the property.

3.5.1 Notwithstanding the explanation at 3.5, the remedy for any breach by me of Lessee covenants would lie with the Lessor and not with your Client.

Primacy of Contract

3.6 Notwithstanding my unfettered right to park in Bay “BS”, as detailed in 3.2 – 3.8 above It is alleged by your Client that by parking on bay “BS” the driver entered into a contract with your Client, which is specifically denied, for the reasons below.

3.6.1 A prior contract exists which cannot be over-ridden by your Client.

3.6.2 Signage at the site would only be capable of forming a contract in certain circumstances, including but not limited to, the absence of an existing contract. However, since you are relying on it, you must provide full details to me. I have requested the details at 2.2.2.



4. 4.1 In compliance with the Pre-Action Protocol, I have enclosed evidence of the Tenancy agreement establishing property rights, and invite your Client to reconsider this Claim, and further, to cease and desist from entering the property (bay “BS”) or affixing any notice to any vehicle parked therein.

4.2 In compliance with the Pre-Action Protocol, I have enclosed evidence of the right to park in an allocated space (the parking permit allocated to the property for parking bay “BS”)

4.3 To continue with this action, which is bound to fail, would be vexatious and unreasonable, and could have detrimental consequences for your Client in terms of costs.

4.4 If you fail to provide the requested documents within 30 days, and proceed to litigation, I will immediately apply for a stay, at your Client’s expense, until you comply. I will also notify the Solicitors Regulation Authority of your inability to follow this most basic requirement.



5. Counter Claim

5.1 You will know that as this is a residential location the residents will have a lease or agreement for the property they own or rent. It would be incumbent upon you to consider the leaseholder rights in respect of the use of allocated parking spaces

5.2 If your Client continues to litigation I shall be submitting a complaint to the Information Commissioner’s Office about your misuse of personal data, and issuing a counter-claim against your Client for 7 breaches of the Data Protection Act at £200 for each wrongful application for, and misuse of, my personal details from the DVLA, and 7 counts of trespass on the property as evidenced by affixing notices to the windscreen of my vehicle at £160.00 per occasion. Total amount of the claim £2,520.00.



Documents Enclosed: (i) evidence of issued parking permit for allocated parking for the property at <location> (ii) evidence of property rights for the property at <location>

This post has been edited by langworth: Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 20:41
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post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 19:39
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Redivi
post Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 16:37
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The favourite is a clause that the management company may introduce reasonable regulations
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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 01:30
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QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 13:19) *
As you are not the owner of the land, you could not launch a counterclaim based on trespass. If, however, the leaseholder is really with you on this, he/she could launch a claim based on trespass and request that your case and his/her claim are heard together.

As ostell suggests, the leaseholder's claim could be based on the number of days (from the later of the date the parking operator commenced using your space for the purposes of its business and the date the leaseholder acquired the lease to the current date) and the current date multiplied by the cost of a day's parking elsewhere locally. If the product is more than £10,000, keep the figure below this amount so that the claim can be heard in the small claims track.


Ahem. Ludicrous.

Not the slightest bit suited to this case, this OP, or what they actually need.
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langworth
post Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 19:32
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Hi Folks

Well, I cobbled together this response, based on your feedback and including some of your comments, reiterated some established points and added a few new ones. Hopefully no big legal mistakes on my part.....

****************************************

Thank you for your letter of 13 December 2018 confirming your client’s intention to proceed to County Court.

It is my intention to robustly defend this claim and countersue.

1. I would like to point out, yet again, that in my letter of 30th October 2018, I requested nineteen pieces of information or documents from you. You provided me with just four documents in response within the period stipulated by the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.

You failed to provide any explanation for the missing information and documents, and therefore your client has failed to comply with the Protocol. Notwithstanding your bland assertion that you are compliant, this failure is self evident.

2. Furthermore, in my letter of 30th October I made it clear that it is apparent that your client has entered into a contract with its principal relating to land where parking is governed by leases but, in doing so, your client has not bothered to examine the contents of those leases (which are, of course, documents of public record available from the Land Registry).

The Land Registry documents for the property at <*** address ***> (where, for your information, I was a resident) clearly show the marked parking space that I had been legally and rightfully using as the parking space attached to the property.
" 1 (23.01.2012) The Leasehold land shown edged with red on the plan of the
above title filed at the Registry and being <*** address ***>
NOTE: Only the second floor flat is included in the title.
2 (23.01.2012) Short particulars of the lease(s) (or under-lease(s))
under which the land is held:
Date : 20 December 2011
Term : 125 years from 1 January 2011
Parties : (1) Taylor Wimpey UK Limited
(2) Trinity (Estates) Property Management Limited
(3) <Lessee>
3 (23.01.2012) The Lease prohibits or restricts alienation.
4 (23.01.2012) The Lease dated 20 December 2011 referred to above grants
the exclusive use of the car parking space tinted pink on the title
plan.”

In asserting this claim your client has offered no service to the driver that they did not already have good licence to, and to suggest that third party signs can somehow override a lease is risible.

3. The parking space in question is allocated to the property at <*** address ***> and is demised to the tenants by the lease, and the lease has primacy of contract. For the avoidance of doubt I was resident at <*** address ***> and was enjoying the use of the parking space allocated to the tenants by the lease.

4. The legal tenant of the property at <*** address ***> will attend any court proceedings to validate that permission was granted for me to park in the allocated parking space and can provide written submissions to that effect.

5. You should also be aware that your client has previously cancelled a PCN for the same vehicle at the same parking location on presentation of evidence of the right to park. Having established a precedent (the vehicle is entitled to use the parking bay attached to <*** address ***>) it appears vexatious to continue to apply further PCNs.

6. As stated in previous communications, it is obvious that your client has failed to conduct due diligence prior to entering into not only its contract with its principal but also its purported contract between your client and the driver.
I would expect you to realise that your client’s case has no hope of succeeding and any business, especially one concerned with parking should realise this. If you persist in this then I will raise a counter claim for damages for loss of the quiet enjoyment of the space, and invite the court to award damages as it sees fit. A Judge will take a dim view of having his / her time and court resources wasted by people who use the courts in this way with no legal right to do so.

Yours etc.
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 21:57
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QUOTE
Thank you for your letter of 13 December 2018 confirming your client’s intention to proceed to County Court.


Don't thank them for that pathetic template pre-court threatogram, designed to frighten & intimidate people. It is not worthy of thanks.

Start: 'I refer to'

Don't use words like 'risible', IMHO that just sounds ridiculous. Seems to me you've copied someone else's words and not used your own. I did warn you not to use that regurgitated template.

You won't be raising a counter claim (totally unsuited to your case, as I already said above) so don't threaten it.

Can you stop trying to use that template please, which keeps getting shoe-horned by Eljayjay into every residential thread, whether posters understand it or not, and whether it is suited to the case, or not (in this case, not). It does not suit your case, except in the part that tells them about the tenant's lease, which you can word yourself, much better I am sure.
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Redivi
post Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 22:54
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Work on the principle that anything in a letter that isn't essential has potential to be twisted against you or at least used as a distraction

I suggest something much more condensed such as :

Dear Sir

I refer to your letter of 13 December 2018 confirming your client’s intention to proceed to County Court.
I will defend any such claim

1. I note that you only provided four of the nineteen pieces of information or documents that I requested in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.
You have failed to provide any explanation for the missing information and documents and your assertion that you are compliant is wholly incorrect

2. I stand by my letter of 30th October stating that the parking at the location is authorised by a lease and the principal had no authority to enter into a contract with your client
Your client was negligent in its failure to investigate if the principal had such an authority
Your client can offer no service to the driver that he did not already have as a good licence to park

3. The legal tenant of the property who had full authority over the space granted permission for the driver to park
It would be absurd to suggest that a third party's signs can override a lease that has primacy of contract and grants the tenant the right to use the space as he pleases
He will attend any court proceedings to confirm that permission was granted.

4. You appear to be unaware that your client has previously cancelled an identical PCN when it was presented with evidence of the right to park.
Continuing to issue further PCNs is at best negligent and at worst vexatious if your client failed to white-list the vehicle

5. Your client has clearly failed to conduct proper diligence prior to entering into its unlawful contract with its principal that amounts to a derogation from grant.

As a courtesy, I have enclosed a copy of the lease and refer you in particular to Section *****
I suggest that you promptly advise your client of the hopelessness of the threatened claim

Yours etc.


This post has been edited by Redivi: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 05:40
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SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 00:40
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Much better, Redivi!
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Redivi
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 05:41
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Thanks
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langworth
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 19:42
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Hi Redivi

Thanks for your comments and I like your version too - more condensed as you said. Unfortunately it missed the press as I had already sent my wordy version.

Actually "risible" was my substitute for ridiculous smile.gif

I'll update with more news.....
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Redivi
post Fri, 21 Dec 2018 - 20:01
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Don't think it's done any harm
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SchoolRunMum
post Sat, 22 Dec 2018 - 14:57
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Agreed - it hasn't done any harm but don't be steered into using wordy stuff or a counter claim at defence stage. When you read that wordy template, you can see it's actually 'risible'!
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SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 28 Dec 2018 - 22:55
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Can we just stop talking about a counter-claim or claim in this case. All you do Eljayjay is steer people into your template and relying on you, and you have even drawn in some regulars.
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nosferatu1001
post Sat, 29 Dec 2018 - 12:40
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I'm guessing there are some deleted responses there?
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langworth
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 12:19
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Hi Folks

I finally received a response from SCS Law to my latest letter to them.

-------
1st Feb

We write further to your letter of 18 December 2018 having now obtained our clients instructions.

1. We confirm that all the necessary documentation was given to you in our substantive letter dated 12 November 2018. As stated previously we consider that our letter before claim is compliant with the pre action protocol for debt claims.

2-3 Please provide us with a copy of any documentation (ie lease agreement or a tenancy agreement) to demonstrate that you had an unfettered right to park your vehicle at the site in question in breach of the terms and conditions of parking. upon receipt of such our client will be able to consider their position further in this matter.

Please note we have requested a copy of the lease from the land registry but they were unable to provide us with the same.

4. Noted.

5. our client has instructed us that the parking charge dated 21 February 2016 was cancelled due to a dispute between the parties in respect of the grace period. The cancellation was not due to the presentation of evidence of the right to park.

6. Our client has not failed to conduct due diligence in this matter. It is their position that the seven parking charge notices for the total sum of 1120 were validly issued against you and the onus is on you to prove that you are not liable for these charges. Our client was contracted to provide parking management services by Trinity Estates Ltd. who declared that they had the right to do the same.

We look forward to hearing from you within fourteen days of the date of this letter.

------

In answer to their points above:

1. Noted but my position stands, they didn't provide everything I asked for..

2-3 and 6 - Having laid out my position, is the onus on me to present them with further evidence to substantiate my position e.g tenancy agreement (which is of course in the tenant's name, not mine) or for them to decide if they want to risk proceeding to court based on the information I have provided?

5. This one (where they deny any reference to cancelling a previous parking charge after my proving I had a permit) gets interesting - 4th April 2016 they say in their letter "in order to make a final decision concerning your appeal can you provide a copy of a valid parking permit...". On 13 May 2016 they say in their letter "We understand your frustration and appreciate the inconvenience this has caused you. ....based on the information provided we can confirm in this instance the parking charge has been cancelled. ...we apologise for any inconvenience caused.". There was no mention of "grace periods" or anything of the like.

I'd be grateful for any advice or comments about how to respond.

Many thanks
Simon
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 13:48
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The courts expect parties to cooperate; you can demand docs of them, they cna do the same from you.
Blank out the names, if you need to, for data protection reasons. As long as it has the property address it will be hard to argue against

5) Point that out to them
State you were asked to provide thepermit
You did
They then cancelled the charge. As no mention was EVER made about "gracer periods", it is asinine of them to state this was the reasons, and you have no doubt that faced with anunsupported assertion that this was about "grace periods", you suggest a court will find the alternative you propose - one baked up by their clients own documentation - tobe the more persuasive one

Ont he due diligence - point out that your client
- knew there were leases
- knew OR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN these leases would have clauses around parking, as this is common on residential estates
- and failed to actually do anything

Their clients failure to perform their duties with reasonable skill and care isnt your fault, but their clients. You suggest they take it up with Trinity.
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ostell
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 15:39
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6) The onus is on them to prove that they have the right to charge and not you to prove that you are not.
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langworth
post Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 18:53
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Here's my reply - I decided to take the route of giving them the information in the hope it might end it more quickly.....

I pinched a few of your various choice phrases - thanks for those.

------------------------------

Thank you for your letter of 1st February 2019.

1. Noted but my position stands, I requested nineteen pieces of information or documents from you. You provided me with just four documents in response within the period stipulated by the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.

2-3. I attach the following:
• First page of the tenancy agreement for the property at XXX. Note that the tenant at the property is keen to substantiate in any way he can, either in writing in person.
• Copy of the previous parking permit for the property.
• Copy of the current parking permit for the property.

5. Thankfully one of the parties has retained an accurate record of events. I appealed a “parking charge”, I was asked to provide evidence of the permit, which I did, following which the charge was cancelled.

Please remind your client that:
• On 4th April 2016 they say in their letter:
"in order to make a final decision concerning your appeal, please can you provide a copy of a valid parking permit...".

• On 13 May 2016 they say in their subsequent letter:
"We understand your frustration and appreciate the inconvenience this has caused you…. “,
“We have investigated the appeal based on the information submitted by yourself and can confirm in this instance the parking charge has been cancelled. ...”,
“we apologise for any inconvenience.".

There was never any mention of "grace periods" in any correspondence either from myself or your client, and it will be pointless to suggest otherwise. I think the Court will find my argument to be the more persuasive.

A copy of your client’s letter confirming the cancellation following appeal is attached.

6. Your client may believe they have conducted due diligence, but your client would be aware that there are property leases in effect and knew or should have known that these leases would have clauses around parking, as is common on residential estates. Failure to perform their duties without reasonable skill and care should not affect my right to undisturbed use and enjoyment of the property in peace, without disturbance by hostile claimants.
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langworth
post Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 13:47
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The plot thickens. I was expecting them to give up now, but I suspect they've already sunk too much into the lawyers to give up.

I received this reply....

=============================================

14th March

We write further to your letter dated 11 Feb 2019, having now obtained our client's instructions.

In respect of points 1 and 6 in your letter, our client's position remains that all the necessary documentation was provided to you and that there was no failure to conduct due diligence in this matter. Please note, we will not be responding any further to these points.


In respect of point 5 in your letter, our client has instructed us that no appeal was made in respect of the parking charge notices issued for this matter. The letter dated 13th May 2016 (which you enclosed in your letter of 11 Feb) refers to an appeal for a separate parking charge notice. Accordingly we do not see the relevance of your argument, as the appeal does not relate to this matter.


Lastly, please provide us with a complete copy of your tenancy agreement so that our client can consider their position in full.


We look forward to hearing from you within 14 days of this letter.

=============================================

My thoughts:

1. They already have overwhelming evidence of a right to park - copies of past and present parking permits, tenant's tenancy agreement, cancelled previous ticket etc. - I'm not sure why they're still pursuing this unless I'm missing something major that strengthens their case?

2. I believe that they've completely missed the point about the appeal and cancellation of a previous ticket. Does it not demonstrate precisely that they previously acknowledged a right to park?

3. I've already provided the front page of the tenancy agreement and assured them that the tenant is itching to speak on my behalf. Should I accede to their request to view someone else's tenancy agreement in full At what point do I say you have the evidence and my stated position - so issue proceedings or get lost?

Many thanks
Simon
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Eljayjay
post Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 11:05
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langworth –

I have not gone back through the whole of your thread; however, based on what I recall, I think the time really has come to tell them firmly that, to stand any chance of getting any money from you, they need to take you to court.

If what follows accurately sums up the correspondence so far, I would suggest that you send it.



I refer to your letter of 11 February 2019.

In my letter dated xx xxxxxxx 2018 sent in response to your own letter before claim dated xx xxxxxx 2018, I gave you an opportunity to provide information and documents to show that your client has a right to seek recovery of unpaid parking charges in relation to the land.

Your client is clear not the owner or the occupier of the land. As such, it is incumbent on your client to show that it is “authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land”.

You have done almost nothing to satisfy me on this point by refence to the documents governing the land. As you appear to be totally unwilling to provide all information and documents required by me, if you wish to seek any alleged unpaid parking charges from me, you will need to persuade a judge.

I have mentioned previously that, as you failed to provide all information and documents required by me within the time limit set by the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims, I regard this correspondence to be at an end. I also regard your continued attempts to extort money from me without complying with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims to be harassment.

If you genuinely believe that you have a valid case to seek recovery of unpaid parking charges in relation to the land from me, I can only suggest that you commence legal action against me through the County Court and attempt to persuade a judge of the merits of your claim. Naturally, I shall defend any such claim robustly.

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langworth
post Sun, 24 Mar 2019 - 12:29
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Many thanks for the advice - much appreciated.

I'm of the same opinion - this nonsense has gone on for too long already.
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langworth
post Thu, 4 Apr 2019 - 13:27
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And so.....

I replied pointing out that they'd had all the evidence they needed including the parking permits and the front page of the tenancy agreement and either do it or get lost. They replied with this:


================

We write further to our letter before claim sent to you 11 September 2018 and your letter dates 25 March 2019

As no agreement has been reached between the parties our client UK Parking Control Ltd has instructed us to issue county court proceedings to recover the unpaid parking charge notices after 14 days from the date of this letter.

However the above proceedings can could be avoided by your provision of a complete copy of your tenancy agreement, the contents of which will enable our client to consider their position to make an informed decision in relation to this matter.

Please treat this letter as the required notice etc etc

================

1. I wasn't a tenant but my host was and they've already seen the front copy of his tenancy agreement
2. they've seen the valid parking permits
3. I enjoyed and still enjoy every right to park there

Im minded to say that the tenant is happy to join me in court with his tenancy agreement in full but that as I had, and still have, every right to park there, this is now harassment.

What do you all think?

Thanks
Simon
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