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[NIP Wizard] Nip received but at wrong address
Criss25061
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 13:08
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - October 2018
Date of the NIP: - 103 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 104 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Warwickshire court
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I moved address April 2018 and updated my driving licence in September 2018 online. Once I had the new driving licence returned, I then had to send back my old licence cut in half. At this point I sent off my log book in the the same envelope as my old driving licence so that they could update the address.

As I didn’t hear anything for a couple weeks, I chased DVLA and was told the log book could take up to 4 weeks to arrive. This was back in September and since then I completely forgot about it (having first child born sort of took my mind off it).

Anyway in October 2018, I received a parking ticket for parking on double yellow lines, this was given to me by a CSO. The notice said I’d receive a letter confirming details/fine.

A few weeks/months went by and I had no letter, I just thought they had forgot or just let me off. However , over the weekend 9 February 2019 my brother at my old address, had opened a piece of my post by mistake (my middle name and his first name are the same) and it included the court summons for failing to provide driver information.

Therefore I never received the first letter(s) which they sent and neither did my parents receive them at my old address. I called the DVLA and they confirmed that they hadn’t received my logbook and that’s why the address wasn’t ever updated.

I have now pleaded not guilty to the failing to provide information as I never received any other letters and from reading topics on here I’m now presumably going to have to go to court.

I’m just a bit worried as what I can do or say, I know they hear the excuse that the first letter wasn’t ever received, but I actually never received any letters.

The parking fine was £30 as so case handler informed me when I queried the NIP, however my court hearing is for failing to give the driver information.

Any help on this would be great, so then I can go to court better prepared.

Regarding logbook; I’ve spoken to dvla who have said I need to complete a v62 and pay a £25 fee for a replacement even though it was them who lost my logbook.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 13:08:11 +0000
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post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 13:08
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Irksome
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 15:15
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The summons you've recveived is unlikely to be for a parking ticket.

You need to call the court and find out what the failure to provide relates to - a speeding ticket etc. When you know that you can seek advice here as to how best to proceed.

Pleading not guilty at this stage is the correct thing to do - but you need to understand what the underlying charge is to best evaluate your options.


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PePiPoo will likely close in October due to issues beyond the control of any contributor to this forum.

You are encouraged to seek advice at https://www.ftla.uk/speeding-and-other-criminal-offences/ where the vast majority of the experts here have moved over to already.
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cp8759
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 15:36
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What was the original offence, exactly? And which local authority area was the offence in? Personally I would check if it's a green or yellow area in this map: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/go...ith-cpe-map.pdf

Also, is failing to name the driver the only offence mentioned on the paperwork?

QUOTE (Irksome @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 15:15) *
The summons you've recveived is unlikely to be for a parking ticket.

I agree it's unlikely but not impossible, there's at least one non-civil enforcement area within West Mercia.


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southpaw82
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 16:48
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Why would they send a s 172 notice in respect of a non-endorseable parking offence?


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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cp8759
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 17:02
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 16:48) *
Why would they send a s 172 notice in respect of a non-endorseable parking offence?

Well either the OP is wrong and in he spoke to a civil enforcement officer, and the s172 is about an unrelated matter, or maybe the OP is mistaken and it was a pedestrian zig-zags offence, until the OP clarifies, or shows us the paperwork, we don't really know.


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Criss25061
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 17:41
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Hi

It’s definitly for parking on double yellow lines. When I called the court and spoke to case officer, they have confirmed the original fine would have been £30, however as I have failed to notify them who the driver was, I am now summoned to go to court. I don’t have the paperwork to hand as I send it off, but as soon as I get their response to my non guilty plead, I’ll be able to give more information. The offence was in Telford so in the West Midlands.
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southpaw82
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 18:39
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QUOTE (Criss25061 @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 17:41) *
The offence was in Telford so in the West Midlands.

West Mercia.


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Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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localdriver
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 21:01
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According to the link in post 3, Telford is not a Civil Enforcement area, so the original 'ticket' may have been issued on behalf the police and why it is being dealt with at court.

This post has been edited by localdriver: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 22:39
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cp8759
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 23:13
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QUOTE (Criss25061 @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 17:41) *
Hi

It’s definitly for parking on double yellow lines. When I called the court and spoke to case officer, they have confirmed the original fine would have been £30, however as I have failed to notify them who the driver was, I am now summoned to go to court. I don’t have the paperwork to hand as I send it off, but as soon as I get their response to my non guilty plead, I’ll be able to give more information. The offence was in Telford so in the West Midlands.

It's the West Mercia police force area. Why were you parked on double yellow lines?

In you have no defence to the double yellow line offence, you should in principle be able to do a deal with the prosecutor, to plead guilty to the parking offence in exchange for the s172 being dropped. This is normally done for speeding, but there's no reason why it shouldn't apply for a parking offence.

Also, what paperwork did the CSO give you at the time? Didn't he take your name there and then?


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Criss25061
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 23:27
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I was parked there as it was a closed down building and there were about 30 cars all parked there. The cso just left the ticket on the windshield which stated I would receive a letter regarding the offence. Then the first letter i received to my old address was the court summons one.

I’m happy to pay the fine for the parking as I know I was in the wrong for that, it’s just the failing to give the information which I’m not happy about. The worst part is, I did try to update my address on my log book. I had sent that off with my driving licence to be updated, when I received my driving licence back I called the dvla who told me that the log book can take up to 4 weeks to arrive. Then i just forgot about it. I called dvla today and they said they will investigate to see what happened but in mean time I have to comple a v62 and send £25 to get replacement as I have not recorded postage to prove i sent the logbook with the driving licence.

It’s just unfair that I have to prove with recorded postage that i sent the document off, where as when I don’t receive a an important letter then that’s my own problem.

I do appreciate all your help, as soon as I get some paperwork back from my not guilty plea, I’ll be able to give more information.
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cp8759
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 23:28
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So it sounds like the usual guilty plea in exchange for dropping the s172 is the way to go. It seems to be universally successful for speeding prosecutions and it would be absurd if parking matters were dealt with more harshly.


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localdriver
post Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 07:53
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QUOTE (Criss25061 @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 23:27) *
I did try to update my address on my log book. I had sent that off with my driving licence to be updated


Although they are both departments of the DVLA, the addresses are different - for driving licences it is Swansea SA99 1BN, for registration documents it is SA99 1BA, if it was sent to the wrong department, there is no guarantee that it would be passed on and processed correctly.

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Criss25061
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 12:03
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Finally got a response from the courts after sending my not guilty plea back. They have gave me a fine of £811 and 6 points. They didn’t invite me to court. Is this normally the case? Seems a bit unfair for a £30 parking fine.
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Jlc
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 12:23
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Looks like you've been found guilty (in absence) of the s172 offence.

For a not guilty plea you should have had the opportunity to attend court to defend. Contact the court ASAP - it looks like you never received the date to attend?

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 12:24


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Criss25061
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 13:27
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Spoke to the courts. Apparently they never received my court date plea. They are going to send me an appeal form to take it to crown court as I’m unable to do stat decl because I’m aware of the court case.
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cp8759
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 14:38
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How did you send your response to the court?


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The Rookie
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 15:44
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You should formally request that they reopen your case using S142 of the magistrates court act in the interests of justice, forcing an appeal is just stupid for a clerical error such as this.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
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Criss25061
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 20:04
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I sent it by 1st class post at the post office. When I called the court today they said they were going to email me the appeals application... still not received it. So looks like I will have to chase again tomorrow.
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peterguk
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 20:14
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QUOTE (Criss25061 @ Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 20:04) *
I sent it by 1st class post at the post office. When I called the court today they said they were going to email me the appeals application... still not received it. So looks like I will have to chase again tomorrow.


Court back offices are not an instant-response environment.


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Criss25061
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 17:58
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Got my appeals documents emailed to me by the court. Does anyone have any experience in appealing against a conviction?
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