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NIP or not NIP
baccci
post Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 08:33
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Hi All

first time poster - I had a strange encounter with a police officer yesterday morning.

[location: Westway flyover into London, A40, about 200 yards from Edgware Road Underground Station]

I commute to work on a small moped and traffic into London was very heavy, there are two lanes and a near-side hard shoulder.

Lanes were packed with stationary cars as usual, in the middle there was a row of about half dozen mopeds, also stationery - this usually is because at the front there is a large motorcycle who is too big to get through.

I decided to filter through on the left hand hard shoulder - nothing excessive, just enough to overtake the bottleneck which was about 20 yards.

The large motorcycle holding up the filtering lane was, of course, a police motorcycle who promptly stopped me and the conversation went as follows:

> Police: "what makes you so special then?"

> Me: "grovelling"

> "you know what, [reads my number place] I'll let the courts deal with this" and suddenly rides off.

I didn't quite understand what he meant.

As traffic allows, we met again at the next red light, I politely asked him what he meant, and he just kept saying I needed to find a good solicitor and explain myself to the magistrates.

I left it and made sure I didn't overtake him so he couldn't read my plate again (hoping that maybe he just forgot it and wasn't reading to a recorder).

My only take on this is:

1. He was bluffing and just wanted to let me stew for a few weeks
2. He couldn't deal with it at the road as he had to be somewhere (Extinction Rebellion were protesting that day so assumed he was off to this)

I always thought appearing in court was for very serious offences like 100+mph - don't get me wrong, I understand the dangers and death toll on driving on motorway hard shoulders, but felt this was way milder than that as I was filtering at low speed and we were in a city where the limit is rarely above 30.

I also thought, should he have not taken down my details to give me an official roadside warning about prosecution? as without them he doesn't know who was riding and therefore would expect a NIP instead?

I'm so confused huh.gif - any take or opinion is greatly appreciated.

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post Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 08:33
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Jlc
post Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 08:38
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I suspect won't hear any more (It was effectively a 'warning'), but...

You're right that if they are going to pursue then a request to name the driver would need to be sent to the registered keeper.

Not all offences require a 'NIP' (with the 14 day requirement) and matters can go straight to court if they so wish.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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baccci
post Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 08:56
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I hope so!

Here's to the 14 day countdown then...

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The Rookie
post Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 09:01
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What you did would only be an offence if you crossed a solid white line to do it (?).

That said, from your version of events I predict nothing will come of it. As above even if what he said amounted to a 'NIP' (Warning at the time of the offence - slightly dubious) an S172 request to establish rider ID would still be needed before it could go to court.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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baccci
post Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 09:06
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Yes - I did cross the white line and at times was in the hard shoulder lane entirely.

I think yes, for the context, it seemed a little heavy handed.

Thanks for the S172 info - learned something new.



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The Rookie
post Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 09:20
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QUOTE (baccci @ Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 10:06) *
I think yes, for the context, it seemed a little heavy handed.

I think far from it, you committed a criminal offence and got a ticking off, sounds fairly light handed to me!


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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baccci
post Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 09:33
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Yes I understand that; and in some ways I feel if he gave me a warning it was almost too lenient.

I think context plays a heavy part that's all and was fully expecting a FPN.

I may completely naive on this, like I said I thought going straight to court was reserved for the 100mph+ like offences.
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Jlc
post Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 10:02
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QUOTE (baccci @ Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 10:33) *
like I said I thought going straight to court was reserved for the 100mph+ like offences.

He was probably making a point - in reality they would unlikely send it straight to court (if they pursue at all) but they can (and do).


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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blackcross
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 12:18
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Unfortunately you now have to play a waiting game to see whether anything appears in the post. You admit to having committed the offence, so your only “get out” is that the officer can’t be bothered to process this and lets you stew awhile.
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andy_foster
post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 12:42
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I wasn't aware that the A40 had a hard shoulder


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Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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morrisman
post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 12:52
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 13:42) *
I wasn't aware that the A40 had a hard shoulder

The elevated section was originally opened as the A40(M) so has a small hard shoulder
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andy_foster
post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 13:34
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 10 Oct 2019 - 10:01) *
What you did would only be an offence if you crossed a solid white line to do it (?).


There is no offence of crossing a single white line (solid or otherwise)


--------------------
Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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666
post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 14:01
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QUOTE (morrisman @ Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 13:52) *
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 13:42) *
I wasn't aware that the A40 had a hard shoulder

The elevated section was originally opened as the A40(M) so has a small hard shoulder

Driving on the hard shoulder (or a least not on a carriageway) is an offence under the motorway regs. Is there a similar offence on ordinary roads?
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baccci
post Wed, 23 Oct 2019 - 18:24
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Just an update for the post - it's been 14 days and no paperwork; so very likely that it was just a bluff. toothy9.gif

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Fredd
post Wed, 23 Oct 2019 - 19:27
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QUOTE (baccci @ Wed, 23 Oct 2019 - 19:24) *
Just an update for the post - it's been 14 days and no paperwork; so very likely that it was just a bluff. toothy9.gif

Well since you've spent two weeks thinking about this, then it's had the effect he was probably looking for, hasn't it? biggrin.gif Makes me nostalgic for The Old Days, when this kind of "put the shits up them" roads policing was pretty much the norm for minor offences.


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Fredd

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