PCN - Several tickets for parking in my own spot |
PCN - Several tickets for parking in my own spot |
Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 23:07
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 1 Nov 2018 Member No.: 100,726 |
I rent an apartment that comes with it's own numbered parking space. I've lived here for over a year before I got my first car. Within the first few weeks of owning the car and parking it in my space I received an email based ticket forwarded on by my lease company (at £12.50 + VAT per pop I might add) and it states the reason I am being charged is because I don't have a permit. They don't leave tickets on the car.
Admittedly there are indeed signs that mention all of instances they can charge people and one of those reasons is lack of a permit. Naively, I genuinely thought these were deterrent as there's no issues with parking in this place at all. There's countless empty visitor bays every day/night. I rang my letting agent and asked them if I was aware that I needed a parking permit as I was never informed. They didn't know and actually called the landlord to see if he knew. The landlord admitted living here for quite a while, not realising that you needed a permit and never received a single ticket. Since my original ticket they have been back three times so now I have four £100.00 tickets in total for parking in my own space. I rang the company (http://www.district-enforcement.co.uk/) and told them I'll happily pay for a permit (£35 if I remember correctly) but I'm not paying unsubstantiated charges for parking in my own spot. They denied me a permit and have been back giving me extra tickets it seems. The phone operator says that they rarely do patrols on residential car parks that have little to no issues such as ours. For clarity I had my car around two or three weeks before receiving my first ticket and since then I've received four tickets within an eight day period and likely 4 x £12.50 admin charges too from my lease company. I feel stuck as my insurance policy is based upon parking here overnight and I'm not comfortable parking it nearby as everywhere surrounding this apartment complex is very dimly lit which has made it easy pickings for car thieves. Neither this companies website or sign mention any method of getting a permit but simply list a premium rate phone number to ring for questions... I live at number 15 and there's a huge 15 painted on the bay. I'm about to call the company to buy a permit and not mention the charges to see if I can get one like that. Assumedly to apply for said permit, you would have to prove you're a resident of where I indeed live and I would do that with a tenancy agreement. If that agreement constitutes proof, would it not render unsubstantiated charges irrelevant? |
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Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 23:07
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Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 08:30
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#21
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
It's not the NTH letter per se, it's the additional documents that should be included with it. They won't have proof of posting but even if they did can they show the additional items required?
Sounds like you director needs the same help as well, perhaps some brownie points for helping him get out of his parking charge !! Are the letters addressed to the company or the director by name? To get our of this charge you must find out if the additional docs were provided. |
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Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 09:13
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 1 Nov 2018 Member No.: 100,726 |
The letter I'm considering sending. Thought I'd post it here first for the editorial crew to have at it.
QUOTE District Enforcement Limited
PO Box 10418 Ashby LE65 9EJ Re: VO68 ### Dear Sir / Madam, I’m writing to inform you any correspondence should be directed at myself regarding the vehicle VO68 ###, not the registered keeper as I am the only insured driver at present. I also need to inform you that my property lease provides me with all of the entitlement I need to park on my property. Therefore, you cannot enter into any contract with me as you can offer nothing that I do not already possess. I do not consent to you operating a business here and therefore withdraw your implied right of access to my parking space and surrounding property. You will regard any further notices as trespass and tortious interference with the quiet enjoyment of my property. You are required to confirm within seven days that you will cease inspecting my vehicle and have cancelled the existing notices. After the date stated at the top of this letter, I reserve the right to take legal action by way of an injunction and damages without any further warning. Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct. Regards, This post has been edited by fivezerothree: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 09:14 |
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Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 09:21
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 9 Oct 2017 Member No.: 94,418 |
Better advice will come along, but as an immediate point, you don't want to identify the driver. The identity of the driver should never be revealed. I would edit your post above to remove any part that identifies the driver. This post has been edited by GooseOnTheLoose: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 09:42 |
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Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 09:24
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
Do not identify the driver, you are the keeper for the purposes of this exercise, just not the registered keeper. Pl;ease edit.
Personally I would continue, in this instance, with the POFA fail for the time being. I'm sure the director would be more than happy to have your advice on this for future use. The use of your space can be taken up as a separate matter to the ticket received. Mre on the basis of contacting the management company and complaining about the behaviour of the PPC and also asking the PPC what authority they believe they have for ticketing vehicles in your own demised parking space. @Goosonontheloose: please edit your post, ie remove the quote, so the very thing you are advising against is not propagated. This post has been edited by ostell: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 09:31 |
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Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 09:43
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 9 Oct 2017 Member No.: 94,418 |
Do not identify the driver, you are the keeper for the purposes of this exercise, just not the registered keeper. Pl;ease edit. Personally I would continue, in this instance, with the POFA fail for the time being. I'm sure the director would be more than happy to have your advice on this for future use. The use of your space can be taken up as a separate matter to the ticket received. Mre on the basis of contacting the management company and complaining about the behaviour of the PPC and also asking the PPC what authority they believe they have for ticketing vehicles in your own demised parking space. @Goosonontheloose: please edit your post, ie remove the quote, so the very thing you are advising against is not propagated. Done. Embarrassingly I realised that just after I posted. |
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Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 11:07
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 1 Nov 2018 Member No.: 100,726 |
Hi,
I've appealed the tickets on the basis of who I am and where I live and the fact that as far as I am aware I have permission to park in the bay that is assigned to my apartment so they are already aware that I am the driver on that basis alone. I appealed before I posted here. :/ Does that change the angle of attack, they definitely know my name and where I live now. |
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Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 11:23
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18,751 Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Member No.: 32,130 |
That's OK, as you made an honest appeal.
QUOTE Why will I be sued for a large sum next year? Because that's what DE do. Luckily, you are on one of the few forums where we assist people with court claims from these scumbag firms, and we usually see people win. Then the scam will be over. Do as Redivi advised and do it NOW, showing them proof of your primacy of contract (proof that you are not an unauthorised person). Do not write a weak begging letter asking to be let off, we are talking a robust CEASE AND DESIST letter. Your location has no need for this firm to infest it and if the MA will not remove them then you need to make plans to move (I cannot say that any clearer, you need to get away from this threat or you will get more and more PCNs and your life will be made a misery at home, and it is affecting your work. You can't stay and you need to tell your landlord why not, hope he/she will put pressure on the MA to get these PCNs cancelled before they do start the inevitable court case). Please don't worry when you read that. I want to be honest with you, and I want you to know what will happen, and be confident that it can be defended...but that living there is not the place for anyone with a leased car (or any car) because of the presence of a scumbag firm. Look for a flat with NO PARKING ENFORCEMENT. This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 11:24 |
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Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 16:20
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 1 Nov 2018 Member No.: 100,726 |
Do as Redivi advised and do it NOW, showing them proof of your primacy of contract (proof that you are not an unauthorised person). Do not write a weak begging letter asking to be let off, we are talking a robust CEASE AND DESIST letter. Is the above letter I copied in too relaxed? If you've anything that you would recommend example wise then please feel free. For the time being I've parked elsewhere which is okay for the medium term I think, So I don't need to move just yet! |
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 08:46
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
I would call it a "CEASE AND DESIST" - rmemeber YOU have rights THEY do not, and THEY are a nuisance and are trespassing against your goods
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 08:49
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 1 Nov 2018 Member No.: 100,726 |
I would call it a "CEASE AND DESIST" - rmemeber YOU have rights THEY do not, and THEY are a nuisance and are trespassing against your goods So basically I need to be a bit more trigger happy on the caps lock key and explicitly state 'cease and desist' ahem, sorry... CEASE AND DESIST. This post has been edited by fivezerothree: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 08:50 |
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 16:32
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Put the CEASE AND DESIST in caps above the 'dear scumbags' (sorry, Dear sir/madam) at the start of the letter.
in the letter be firm and precise, leave them no wiggle room of ifs buts and maybes, this is the equivalent of them deciding to turn up unannounced and charge you for parking on your own driveway, you'd rightfully be livid, so be livid over this. I'd also suggest copying in the MA as they are jointly and vicariously liable for this trespass and harassment and they are meant to work for YOU! -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 16:55
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 1 Nov 2018 Member No.: 100,726 |
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 18:46
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
MA = Managing Agent
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 19:09
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 1 Nov 2018 Member No.: 100,726 |
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 22:31
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18,751 Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Member No.: 32,130 |
Put the CEASE AND DESIST in caps above the 'dear scumbags' (sorry, Dear sir/madam) at the start of the letter. in the letter be firm and precise, leave them no wiggle room of ifs buts and maybes, this is the equivalent of them deciding to turn up unannounced and charge you for parking on your own driveway, you'd rightfully be livid, so be livid over this. I'd also suggest copying in the MA as they are jointly and vicariously liable for this trespass and harassment and they are meant to work for YOU! I agree - a Cease and Desist warning to both. |
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 23:12
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 1 Nov 2018 Member No.: 100,726 |
Can anyone explain to me what a cease and desist would ideally achieve? It seems as though it's a request not to interfere with me at all but is that a valid request given they believe they have good evidence that I owe them money?
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Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 08:04
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#37
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
It sets out your legal positoin, which is that you dont owe them anything
It will not work, but it shows you have behaved reaonsably. You can then warn them tht 1) They are harassing you for no reasonable cause 2) They acessed your personal details (if true) without reasonable cause, breaching the DPA2018 3) They are commiting a trespass against goods by inspecting your vehicle without cause 4) They are tortiously interefering with your lease, by interfering with your RIGHT to peaceable enjoyment of your leased property All of which comes with damages and you WILL take them to court to recover this, and seek an injunciton against them to prevent them from repeating this. To avoid being taken to court you require the sum of £250x each DPA breach plus say £500 for interference with lease |
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Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 20:31
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#38
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 1 Nov 2018 Member No.: 100,726 |
It sets out your legal positoin, which is that you dont owe them anything It will not work, but it shows you have behaved reaonsably. You can then warn them tht 1) They are harassing you for no reasonable cause 2) They acessed your personal details (if true) without reasonable cause, breaching the DPA2018 3) They are commiting a trespass against goods by inspecting your vehicle without cause 4) They are tortiously interefering with your lease, by interfering with your RIGHT to peaceable enjoyment of your leased property All of which comes with damages and you WILL take them to court to recover this, and seek an injunciton against them to prevent them from repeating this. To avoid being taken to court you require the sum of £250x each DPA breach plus say £500 for interference with lease Thanks for the answer. Do you recommend I include the above within the first Cease and Desist letter? I've printed out three versions now and want to draw a line under it so I can get its sent off lol |
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Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 21:15
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#39
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18,751 Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Member No.: 32,130 |
Yes, include it all (below) because the MA needs to know that they are jointly and vicariously liable for this trespass and harassment, and that it is a private nuisance.
QUOTE You can then warn them tht
1) They are harassing you for no reasonable cause 2) They acessed your personal details (if true) without reasonable cause, breaching the DPA2018 3) They are commiting a trespass against goods by inspecting your vehicle without cause 4) They are tortiously interefering with your lease, by interfering with your RIGHT to peaceable enjoyment of your leased property All of which comes with damages and you WILL take them to court to recover this, and seek an injunciton against them to prevent them from repeating this. |
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Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 21:55
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#40
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,887 Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Member No.: 78,368 |
As usual if sending by post send 1st class and get certificate of posting from the post office which is free.
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