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[NIP Wizard] Section 172 request but no NIP?
PipK
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 16:57
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - December 2018
Date of the NIP: - 52 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 53 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - TYNEWYDD ROAD, BARRY
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I am posting this on behalf of my son and would be extremely grateful for any assistance that anyone is able to offer.
My son lost his job in early November last year and as a result had to sell his car. It was an oldish Peugeot of little value so when someone offered him cash for it he accepted and handed the keys over. It turns out he didn't know the purchaser, did not obtain any details and foolishly let the whole V5 go with the vehicle. Unfortunately he didn't seek any guidance from me on the sale due to the low value of the vehicle.
In January he received a letter with the heading;
Section 172 Road Traffic Act 1988
Section 112(1) Road traffic regulation act 1984
Application for name and address of driver.

It seems the vehicle he sold was involved in an accident a month later and failed to stop, also a further charge is highlighted in this letter.

I am aware that this needs addressing within 28 days and I am aware of the ramifications if he doesn't reply but he is unable to provide details of the driver as he no longer owned the vehicle. What is his best course of action in this case?

Also there was no NIP with this correspondence or is the section 172 request regarded as a NIP?

I would be very grateful for any help with this and thank you in anticipation


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - Unsure
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - No
Were you driving? - No
Do you know who was driving? - No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • As you are not the person keeping the vehicle you are required to provide such information as is in your power to give, especially the name and addresses of the person who was the person keeping the vehicle at the time of the offence (if you know it). You should also tell them the names and addresses of the possible drivers if you know them. You should ask the police to supply a photo.

    Although the reasonable diligence test doesn't apply to you, because you are the Registered Keeper and have a real connection with the vehicle, the police are likely to take a tougher line so you should send a covering letter explaining the circumstances in more detail. You should reply within the 28 day period.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 16:57:22 +0000
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post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 16:57
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southpaw82
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 16:44
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He has potentially already committed an offence of perverting the course of justice. He really ought to get advice before he does anything else. It is far easier to advise a client as to what they might do than as to what they have already done.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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cp8759
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 17:08
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 16:44) *
He has potentially already committed an offence of perverting the course of justice. He really ought to get advice before he does anything else. It is far easier to advise a client as to what they might do than as to what they have already done.

While he might have technically committed an offence, I see it as vanishingly unlikely a PCOJ charged would be pursued on the back of an initial account given verbally, if an accurate s172 form is returned.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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southpaw82
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 18:38
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 17:08) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 16:44) *
He has potentially already committed an offence of perverting the course of justice. He really ought to get advice before he does anything else. It is far easier to advise a client as to what they might do than as to what they have already done.

While he might have technically committed an offence, I see it as vanishingly unlikely a PCOJ charged would be pursued on the back of an initial account given verbally, if an accurate s172 form is returned.

Perhaps so but the OP’s son hasn’t been entirely truthful up to this point already. It would be wrong not to advise the OP of the desirability of legal advice.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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henrik777
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 18:42
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Check your house insurance (or his as the case may be) and see if it includes legal cover.
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PipK
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 18:56
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Some valid points there thank you all.

As previously stated the police officer called to his mother's house to ask a few questions and i'm told it was over fairly quick. His mother was in attendance throughout, nothing was written down and nothing was signed.

I have a solicitor friend whom I have contacted for initial guidance and once again thank you for your input
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cp8759
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 22:59
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QUOTE (PipK @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 18:56) *
I have a solicitor friend whom I have contacted for initial guidance and once again thank you for your input

I cannot over-stress that a specialist solicitor should be used for this sort of matter. If your friend deals primarily with civil law, family law, or even general criminal law (from burglary to street fight to drugs to knives etc...), by all means get a steer from him but really you need a specialist motoring defence solicitor.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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ktpep
post Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 13:38
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QUOTE (PipK @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 10:52) *
Just one thing if you don't mind, would it be worth using a specialist such as Patterson Law to put a case forward for him or is it pretty much set in stone, 3 offences hence 3 convictions and 3 fines?

Once again thank you to those that have contributed here, you've been very helpful


I would say to seek legal advice - some of them do include free initial advice. Just to sure to tell them everything so they are in a good position to give you advice as well as likely fees.

Patterson Law and BB Law are a couple of good ones
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andy_foster
post Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 19:11
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While we are all adding +1 responses, I would like to add something with a little more substance to mine - from what we have been told (and my views on posters seeking advice on behalf of others is well known here), son is potentially in a bit of bother as regards motoring law and has also 'potentially' committed a serious offence which carries a custodial sentence.

Whilst we do and and will not encourage anyone to pervert the course of justice, I would generally caution anyone against confessing to anything that could not necessarily otherwise be proven against them - in particular pretty much the only thing dafter than a poor attempt at perverting the course of justice is admitting to attempting to pervert the course of justice (ignoring that perverting has a sufficiently wide definition to include attempts).


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Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
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PipK
post Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 22:25
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Thank you for your reply.

I am grateful to all that have taken the time to respond to this thread, I posted here as a very concerned father and I appreciate everyone's help and guidance, thank you
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