Selling 2nd hand car |
Helping the motorist get justice 
Helping the motorist get justice
Selling 2nd hand car |
 Thu, 28 Jun 2018 - 12:18
Post
#1
|
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 1,013 Joined: 17 Oct 2012 Member No.: 57,735  |
Hi all,
Friend of mine sold a 54 plate 206 a few days ago. Cash buyer, sold as seen. MOT was due and he made this known to the buyer who was happy. Fast forward to yesterday, buyer contacts him to say the car failed MOT miserably and they want their money back, quoting consumer rights and that "We are well within our rights to bring his car back I’ve checked. I need the money back we need a car!" and quotes "if there's a problem with a second hand car, for example, it develops a problem that wouldn't be expected of a vehicle of that age/mileage....." What I'm told, the buyer turned up and was there about 10 minutes, didn't take the car for a drive or open the bonnet. The car is now over 50 miles away so must have been driveable on the day. The car being 14 years old with 130k on the clock, anything could go wrong with the car. As far as my friend was aware the car was in good condition at point of sale. Where does he stand? |
 |
 
|
 |
| Advertisement |
Thu, 28 Jun 2018 - 12:18
Post
#
|
 Advertise here! |
|
|
|
|
|
Thu, 28 Jun 2018 - 12:39
Post
#2
|
||||
 Webmaster  Group: Root AdminPosts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
If it was a private sale then the seller is only responsible for any statements they made that the buyer may be able to claim they relied on. Where you can come a cropper if you're not careful (apart from making a downright false statement, of course) is making broad statements like "it's basically a good sound car".
-------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
Thu, 28 Jun 2018 - 12:43
Post
#3
|
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 1,013 Joined: 17 Oct 2012 Member No.: 57,735 |
Thanks Fredd. As he thought. He's not the sought to offer opinions.
|
|
|
|
|
Thu, 28 Jun 2018 - 14:57
Post
#4
|
|
 Member Group: Members Posts: 41,580 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
QUOTE (Broadsman @ Thu, 28 Jun 2018 - 13:18)  We are well within our rights to bring his car back I’ve checked. Check again... Sold as seen - Caveat emptor. This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 28 Jun 2018 - 14:57 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
|
|
|
|
Thu, 28 Jun 2018 - 15:22
Post
#5
|
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
If it was specifically sold as seen, there is an onus on the buyer to check it over, barring false statements from the seller, cannot see the buyer has a leg to stand on.
|
|
|
|
|
Thu, 28 Jun 2018 - 15:41
Post
#6
|
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 1,423 Joined: 15 Apr 2009 From: Winnersh, UK Member No.: 27,840 |
Whenever I have sold a car privately, I have always made out a document of sale that both parties sign. It has always included the phase "Sold as seen and tested". Once signed, I then copy the document and retain the copy just in case
|
|
|
|
|
Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 10:44
Post
#7
|
|
 Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
Bearing in mind the value of a 54 plate Pug due an MoT is little more than scrap, the buyer either
a) Paid very little for it, and/or b) Is incredibly naive, and/or c) For some reason believed it would pass it's MoT. Bearing in mind they must have discussed the car to some degree even if it is "sold as seen", whether they have a leg to stand on depends on what was said and what the car failed on. You can't give a false impression as to the roadworthiness of the car and then just use "sold as seen" as a catch all disclaimer. |
|
|
|
|
Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 11:45
Post
#8
|
|
 Member Group: Members Posts: 56,260 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
QUOTE (Broadsman @ Thu, 28 Jun 2018 - 13:18) Fast forward to yesterday, buyer contacts him to say the car failed MOT miserably and they want their money back, quoting consumer rights and that "We are well within our rights to bring his car back I’ve checked. I need the money back we need a car!" and quotes "if there's a problem with a second hand car, for example, it develops a problem that wouldn't be expected of a vehicle of that age/mileage....." That would apply if sold by a dealership, for a private sale its meaningless, he should check his facts to the same standard as he should check his cars... That said some MOT stations are disingenuous bar stewards, I now know and rely on station with no workshop or used car lot, it only fails on what it should fail on! -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
|
|
|
|
Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 12:39
Post
#9
|
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 12:45) ...........I now know and rely on station with no workshop or used car lot, it only fails on what it should fail on! Similar.... my place is the one that all the local independent garages take their motors to..... they will repair but have little free time so don't push it. Can only say I've always found them fair. |
|
|
|
|
Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 14:36
Post
#10
|
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
Same here, place that just does MoTs but will do minor repairs as they work their way around. Makes sense as then you don't have that stupid thing of "it's failed but if you do this five minute job we'll pass it".
I think they have an incentive to pass because effectively their business model is "pay full price for your MoT but with a better chance of it passing". |
|
|
|
|
Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 17:08
Post
#11
|
|
 Member Group: Members Posts: 33,634 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
What is this “MoT” thing of which you speak?
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
|
|
|
|
Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 17:14
Post
#12
|
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 18:08) What is this “MoT” thing of which you speak? I'm typing everything with one hand and use eCCenTric cAPITaliSATion to improve dexterity. |
|
|
|
|
Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 17:33
Post
#13
|
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 33,634 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 18:14) QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 18:08) What is this “MoT” thing of which you speak? I'm typing everything with one hand and use eCCenTric cAPITaliSATion to improve dexterity. “MoT” is perfectly correct - I just don’t think I’ve ever had one. An unnecessary bureaucratic nonsense here. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
|
|
|
|
Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 18:10
Post
#14
|
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Still, "obligatory test certificate" would be the most correct term.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
|
|
|
|
|
Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 18:31
Post
#15
|
|
 Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
I don't buy cars, but the vast majority of sellers of bikes that I've seen always get an MOT as part of the inducement. Not having a recent MOT should be a huge red flag for any moderately informed buyer.
--Churchmouse |
|
|
|
|
Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 18:39
Post
#16
|
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 19:31) I don't buy cars, but the vast majority of sellers of bikes that I've seen always get an MOT as part of the inducement. Not having a recent MOT should be a huge red flag for any moderately informed buyer. --Churchmouse Indeed which is why it matters if the seller had an explanation as to why it was being sold without an MoT. You'd imagine it was the sort of thing that the buyer would ask, unless it was clearly priced accordingly. It was admittedly stupid to buy it as it seems fairly obvious the seller wasn't MoTing it because it wouldn't pass. Otherwise they would do it and get the extra value from a certificate. Which means that if the buyer expected it to pass the test there is maybe a missing part of the story. |
|
|
|
|
Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 21:44
Post
#17
|
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Good idea of course to have a reasonable length of MoT and to check the advisories as they are online. But it won't save you from some faults - I bought a car last year for my son to learn to drive in and all seemed well with nearly a year's Mot and my test drive but the clutch went after 3 months.
|
|
|
|
|
Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 22:12
Post
#18
|
||||
|
Webmaster Group: Root AdminPosts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 19:39) It was admittedly stupid to buy it as it seems fairly obvious the seller wasn't MoTing it because it wouldn't pass. It's not necessarily stupid to buy it if you know what you're buying and what it'll take to make it roadworthy (or what its value is for parts/scrap). -------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
Sat, 30 Jun 2018 - 08:38
Post
#19
|
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 23:12) QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 19:39) It was admittedly stupid to buy it as it seems fairly obvious the seller wasn't MoTing it because it wouldn't pass. It's not necessarily stupid to buy it if you know what you're buying and what it'll take to make it roadworthy (or what its value is for parts/scrap). And such persons would know that the relevant provisions of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 don't apply to private sellers selling vehicles "as seen"... --Churchmouse |
|
|
|
|
Sat, 30 Jun 2018 - 10:27
Post
#20
|
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 23:12) QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Fri, 29 Jun 2018 - 19:39) It was admittedly stupid to buy it as it seems fairly obvious the seller wasn't MoTing it because it wouldn't pass. It's not necessarily stupid to buy it if you know what you're buying and what it'll take to make it roadworthy (or what its value is for parts/scrap). That is the thing. If you are aware and can get the spanners out, what may be a grand's worth of repairs could be a hundred or less (plus your time and sweat) But anyone who buys a car with no MOT or a short one is taking a risk. I did yesterday.... second hand car for my daughter, 3 months MOT left. As far as I could see/find, worst case is minor things (brakes/discs/suspension/steering joints and the like) may be needed, knocked 200 off the asking price for possible cost of MOT immediately before we started haggling. I couldn't see or find any issues but that doesn't mean that any won't appear. But am aware and can fix any I expect. If the unexpected turns up, that is the risk with buying privately. The benefit is at least 2 grand cheaper then I could have bought same car at a dealers. |
|
|
|
 |
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: Tuesday, 16th April 2024 - 06:52 |
