ATHENA LIDL parking charge Options

[buckfast]

Hi guys

i am seeking some advice as I'm wondering if the rules have changed in the last 12 months regarding ignoring these notices.

I've attached the notice that I've received but deleted the exact place/dates/anything potentially identifying me! But it's a lidl in England and the notice from Athena.


I really want to ignore this and am quite happy to ignore/throw anything in the bin, provided that i won't end up in court!

I'm reluctant to appeal because
1- i'm not sure why i should
2- i don't actually have any "evidence" that the car was at lidl that day - by way of till receipt, bank statement etc

Can i just ignore, ignore, ignore, or should i appeal and if so, what would the basis of my appeal be? My story?

Suffice to say the vehicle was allegedly in their car park 60 minutes longer that it was allowed to be

This post has been edited by buckfast: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 - 13:01

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[buckfast]

I'm thinking i only have two realistic options.

1. pay the reduced £45 fee now and put it down do bad experience.
2. go into lidl and complain to manager. I genuinely spend thousands there every year. I'm there several times a week, on occasions i have been there several times a day. I love their bakery and i buy toileteries, fruit and veg, cleaning items there regulalry. Surely they wouldn't want to upset a regular customer? Or should i go back to doing all shopping at Tesco.
If the manager is useless i could ask for his name and get in touch with the CEO of Lidl, whoever that may be?

[ManxRed]

A couple of things have changed in the last 12 months.

1. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 means that private parking companies can - under very strict criteria (which most don't fulfill but more of that later) - pursue the Registered Keeper for any charge they consider the driver would have been liable for.

2. A few PPCs have started taking punts on court action, and more may well join in. Some, like CEL, seem to be folding before it gets to court - although the poor driver/RK still has all that hassle of getting a defence together and sumitting it etc. - but some, well Parking Eye in particular, are actually following through to court and - inexplicably - winning their cases.

The most success at the moment is being had at POPLA, who are the 'independent' (and I use the inverted commas for a reason) panel for appeals against private parking tickets. This has some advantages, firstly that it costs the PPC £27 plus VAT for each appeal, whereas it costs the driver nothing, secondly that the driver isn't bound by the outcome, although the PPC ought to cancel if they lose (they don't HAVE to, but they should), and thirdly if you submit a wellcrafted appeal to POPLA with help from people on here, you have a very good chance of winning.

You need to appeal to the PPC first and foremost, don't waste too much time on this, they'll reject it regardless. However on rejection they must give you the POPLA code, and this is where you submit the well-worded appeal and hopefully send Athena packing.

You shouldn't be thinking of paying this, legally the landowner (not Athena) is entitled to the financial loss suffered by the landowner, which in a free car park is zero. A well worded POPLA appeal will see this off.

No harm in complaining to LIDL in parallel. But get the appeal off to Athena and get the POPLA code, this is the key to killing ths off.

This post has been edited by ManxRed: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 - 14:45

[buckfast]

Thanks for your advice manx

a couple of things, i'm not very good at writing letters and would struggle where to even start with an appeal.

second, i know that my vehicle was in the car park way longer than the hour and a half permitted. This is because i was waiting an inordinate amount of time at the drop in centre to see a doctor. I have no evidence that i shopped in lidl that day, but i shop there all the time. I'm thinking i should just pay the £45. I was hoping i could just ignore the notices and they will go away, but i wouldn't know where to start with an appeal.

I've read things elsewhere about template letters being rejected because they are just that TEMPLATES

[ManxRed]

They can certainly comment on letters being templates, but they cannot use that as an excuse to ignore them. The letters you will invariably receive from them will be templates!

Don't pay the £45, legally you don't owe them anything.

Appeal to Athena:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing as registered keeper of the vehicle AB12 ABC, in reference to your Notice to Keeper (ref: XXXXXX). I do not feel that I am liable for this charge, no financial loss has been incurred by the landowner as a result of this incident and hence I feel that the sum you are seeking amounts to an unenforceable penalty.

Please cancel the ticket forthwith and confirm this by return. Alternatively please send me a POPLA code so that I may submit an appeal to the independent appeals service.

Yours,

XXXX

Then, when they reject your appeal, come back here and we'll tell you what to submit next.

[buckfast]

i appreciate your help Manxred.

The trouble i have with appealing is that it will take longer than the number of days stated in the letter at which i can pay the reduced £45 fee.

My fear is that if it goes to independent appeal that i will lose and have to pay a substantially larger fee. I fear i will lose as i have no evidence to prove that i was not in the car park longer than permitted, nor any evidence that i used the shop that day

[Jlc]

Why do you think the cost 'escalates'? To get you to pay early....... (And it works for many)

They don't want you to appeal etc.

As you owe nothing then why does it matter that it escalates?

[SailDog]

Buckfast, I am in a similar position...

It is my understanding that these parking companies are not entitled to any money, as they are effectively enforcing a punitive (i.e. punishment) charge on a member of the public that far outweighs the damages their client (in this case Lidl) has suffered.

I will not be paying my "charge", although I am waiting for a bit of feedback on my thread before I email Athena.

Given that the car park I parked in was not full and the car park is free anyway, the maximum "damage" my overstay can have possibly cost Lidl amounts to exactly zero pounds. I was not in a disabled or other "special" space, and there were several other spaces available for people to park in, so nobody at all was prevented from entering Lidl that day, at least by my car.

Notwithstanding this, I also believe there are issues regarding the effective "contract" you enter in to by parking in the car park... I.e. it's bollocks.

[ManxRed]

I'm sorry, I don't know what more I can tell you.

Legally you owe them no money. The redress for breaching the terms and conditions of a contract is the actual financial losses suffered by (in this case) the landowner as a result of the breach.

Your breach has caused the landowner no loss whatsoever.

What you are failing to take on board is that this company, who have no powers to fine anyone, and very likely have no controlling stake over the land in question, have arbitrarily made up some 'rules' about parking, and decided that if you break one of these 'rules' then you owe them £45. They have also decided that once an arbitrary amount of time is up then the 'fine' goes up from £45 to something that you also legally do not owe them.

Legally, that's utter nonsense. They know it, we know it. They're just hoping you don't and that you simply pay up without understanding the actual legal position. We've told you the legal position and you still want to pay.

Not sure there's anything more I can say on it.

Its your choice, and your money at the end of the day (well, their money soon, I guess).

[buckfast]

i have emailed a simple "appeal" as advised and i will update this thread with any developments.

Appreciate your help

[ManxRed]

Good!

Don't forget, they WILL reject this appeal, so don't be despondent when they do.

What you are aiming to get is the POPLA appeal code, we do have an excellent record on putting together POPLA appeals that win. POPLA will listen to legal arguments (one of your POPLA appeal points will include the 'charge is not representative of the landowner's loss' point) and generally respond with sense - in other words they find in your favour.

Stay strong!

[buckfast]

i hope so!

At worse it will lengthen the time between i need to pay anything. I'm really skint just now, but if i put away a tenner a week i should have enough to pay something if the POPLA appeal loses.

[SchoolRunMum]

i hope so!

At worse it will lengthen the time between i need to pay anything. I'm really skint just now, but if i put away a tenner a week i should have enough to pay something if the POPLA appeal loses.

Nope, not needed. We win at POPLA so all you really need to do is make sure you follow our advice on POPLA appeals, here you go in readiness, some reading for you:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...81&posted=1



HTH

[buckfast]

I asked that they send me a copy of the contract between them and the landowner along with their name and address and a copy of the maintenance schedule for the cameras.

I've also emailed the UK managing director of Lidl advising him of the ticket and stating my outrage that a company that is trying to increase its presence in th UK market is allowing this practice to go on

[SailDog]

I've just spoken to Lidl customer services by phone, who told me to email Athena with a redacted scan of my bank statement showing Lidl transactions and claimed that they would drop the charge immediately, as Lidl are not in the habit of penalising loyal customers, even if they don't have a receipt for the date of the "offence".

I will keep you informed...

[emanresu]

as Lidl are not in the habit of penalising loyal customers, even if they don't have a receipt for the date of the "offence".

That's an excellent bit of news which we should pass on to others. Seems Lidl are seeing a bit of sense on the issue.

Wonder if the thought of all that Xmas shopping going elsewhere had an effect.

Remember that Lidl and other retailers will only get into profit if they have a successful last 3 months of the year. Give them a kick about now and they will respond i.e. don't scare the customers ParkingEye

[SailDog]

Eman, it's good news that Lidl have said that... Whether the PPC cancel the charge is another thing!

[buckfast]

It seems my email to the UK managing director of Lidl has done the trick.

Just received an email from Lidl customer services confirming that they are cancelling the parking charge

[SchoolRunMum]

Nice, just added your successful complaint to the Hall of Fame thread I am running on MSE:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4766249

Well done - and yet another complaint about a PPC being brought to the desk of someone with enough clout to realise there could be a customer service issue here!

[emanresu]

Don't forget to shop somewhere else this Xmas - and let them know it.

Retailers are particularly vulnerable to changes in shoppers sentiments. ParkingEye will be the kiss of death this year for a few.

R.I.P Somefield.


PS Nice job.

This post has been edited by emanresu: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 - 15:00