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Electric Scooters
speedfighter23
post Sun, 24 May 2020 - 19:31
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Was thinking of buying an electric scooter to use on short journeys in London.
I know the law will change soon, but where do we stand currently?

If a Police officer is in a bad mood, can they stop me and write me a ticket for no insurance?


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post Sun, 24 May 2020 - 19:31
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Fredd
post Sun, 24 May 2020 - 20:22
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I'm pretty sure you know the answer to that question. In fact they could fill their boots when it came to possible offences.


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The Rookie
post Sun, 24 May 2020 - 21:24
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No tax, no insurance, unroadworthy motor vehicle, no marque on display, the list is not quite endless but close.


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speedfighter23
post Sun, 24 May 2020 - 21:27
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 24 May 2020 - 22:24) *
No tax, no insurance, unroadworthy motor vehicle, no marque on display, the list is not quite endless but close.



Ouch! Probably better until they clarify the rules then.

This post has been edited by speedfighter23: Sun, 24 May 2020 - 21:28


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Fredd
post Mon, 25 May 2020 - 07:50
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QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Sun, 24 May 2020 - 22:27) *
Probably better until they clarify the rules then.

They don't need to clarify them, they're quite clear already - what they'd need to do is change the law to allow them to be used without the full panoply of regulations that go with being a motor vehicle, and with whatever conditions might be appropriate (helmets and insurance, perhaps?).


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Jlc
post Mon, 25 May 2020 - 08:21
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QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Sun, 24 May 2020 - 20:31) *
I know the law will change soon

I'd wait for the 'transport revolution' but I think the Government are a bit distracted at the moment...


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stamfordman
post Mon, 25 May 2020 - 09:12
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Get a cycle instead. One of those folding ones if necessary. I've been doing a lot of cycling in London and it's easy and lots of cycle lanes now.

I've seen a lot of people now with electric bikes but I can't see the point unless you are not physically fit.
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speedfighter23
post Mon, 25 May 2020 - 09:47
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Mon, 25 May 2020 - 08:50) *
QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Sun, 24 May 2020 - 22:27) *
Probably better until they clarify the rules then.

They don't need to clarify them, they're quite clear already - what they'd need to do is change the law to allow them to be used without the full panoply of regulations that go with being a motor vehicle, and with whatever conditions might be appropriate (helmets and insurance, perhaps?).


i think that would be too strict and complicated; it probably won't be as light as France as in an absolute free for all, but I don't see helmets being mandatory, just like cycles. I probably see speed limits.

Regarding insurance, if you are going to insure electric scooters, than why not insure cycles or e-bikes?


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Fredd
post Mon, 25 May 2020 - 10:47
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QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Mon, 25 May 2020 - 10:47) *
i think that would be too strict and complicated; it probably won't be as light as France as in an absolute free for all, but I don't see helmets being mandatory, just like cycles. I probably see speed limits.

Regarding insurance, if you are going to insure electric scooters, than why not insure cycles or e-bikes?

Depends where they're going to be allowed, doesn't it? If it's on pavements then they're far more of a hazard to other people, particularly given how fast many of them can go (and speed limits, right...). If it's only on roads or bicycle lanes then they're probably more of a risk to the rider than anyone else - although I think you'd have to be mad to use a vehicle with such tiny wheels on our rough roads - and that might be an argument for mandatory helmets. I've no idea what the government is thinking of doing, but I'm sure they realise that it's far easier to put restrictions in at the start of something new, rather than trying to force them onto people who're used to more relaxed rukes (as with bikes).


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speedfighter23
post Mon, 25 May 2020 - 10:55
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Mon, 25 May 2020 - 11:47) *
QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Mon, 25 May 2020 - 10:47) *
i think that would be too strict and complicated; it probably won't be as light as France as in an absolute free for all, but I don't see helmets being mandatory, just like cycles. I probably see speed limits.

Regarding insurance, if you are going to insure electric scooters, than why not insure cycles or e-bikes?

Depends where they're going to be allowed, doesn't it? If it's on pavements then they're far more of a hazard to other people, particularly given how fast many of them can go (and speed limits, right...). If it's only on roads or bicycle lanes then they're probably more of a risk to the rider than anyone else - although I think you'd have to be mad to use a vehicle with such tiny wheels on our rough roads - and that might be an argument for mandatory helmets. I've no idea what the government is thinking of doing, but I'm sure they realise that it's far easier to put restrictions in at the start of something new, rather than trying to force them onto people who're used to more relaxed rukes (as with bikes).


I think a good solution is to only allow them on roads with speed limits up to 30 MPH, and in urban areas. There are many electric scooters in use in London now, obviously people are oblivious to the rules and the Police turns a blind eye. Do we know of any prosecutions for using those electric scooters on the road in London?

I use them in Paris a lot when I am there, so I can see the dangers of them, but also the practicalities in stand still urban areas where it is much quicker than walking and much less tiring than cycling.

This post has been edited by speedfighter23: Mon, 25 May 2020 - 10:57


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Mortimer
post Mon, 25 May 2020 - 11:01
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I've seen them frequently around Richmond Park, Sheen and New Malden.
I have also seen them stopped by the Police inside Richmond Park on occasions. What the outcome of the stop was is anyone's guess though.
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speedfighter23
post Mon, 25 May 2020 - 11:07
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QUOTE (Mortimer @ Mon, 25 May 2020 - 12:01) *
I've seen them frequently around Richmond Park, Sheen and New Malden.
I have also seen them stopped by the Police inside Richmond Park on occasions. What the outcome of the stop was is anyone's guess though.


When I see them stopped in the park, it is to tell them to not ride them and walk with them, have not seen them stopped on public roads so have no idea what the Police do in those occasions at lest the Met Police. Obviously if you are driving on an A or B road, the Police would be more aggressive, but on a local road in central London?


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cp8759
post Mon, 25 May 2020 - 12:24
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https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/uk-news...sers-in-a-week/

As with all things, they make a bit of a fuss if someone gets killed.


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666
post Mon, 25 May 2020 - 12:33
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QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Mon, 25 May 2020 - 12:07) *
QUOTE (Mortimer @ Mon, 25 May 2020 - 12:01) *
I've seen them frequently around Richmond Park, Sheen and New Malden.
I have also seen them stopped by the Police inside Richmond Park on occasions. What the outcome of the stop was is anyone's guess though.


When I see them stopped in the park, it is to tell them to not ride them and walk with them, have not seen them stopped on public roads so have no idea what the Police do in those occasions at lest the Met Police.

Richmond Park's roads are open to the public (within certain hours and virus permitting) so most road traffic legislation applies. The Met Police's action's shouldn't be different elsewhere.
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speedfighter23
post Mon, 25 May 2020 - 12:34
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 25 May 2020 - 13:24) *
https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/uk-news...sers-in-a-week/

As with all things, they make a bit of a fuss if someone gets killed.


Thanks for that, even so it seems the Police 'spoke' to the people involved and didn't prosecute them. Either way I will probably wait to see about the law change in June before deciding whether to buy one.


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The Rookie
post Mon, 25 May 2020 - 12:57
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June is for the trial of rental schemes, to quote Grant Shapps “The trial wouldn't extend to individuals who want to buy their own private scooter, but is intended for cities who want to operate rented scooter schemes in partnership with scooter firms“ so it won’t really help you anyway.


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Mad Mick V
post Mon, 25 May 2020 - 16:07
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The 1835 Act quoted in that press cutting is interesting because it appears to presume that a nuisance must occur once the "carriage" is on the footpath. Or is wilful intention is enough to trigger a fine.

72 Penalty on persons committing nuisances by riding on footpaths, &c.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . F1 If any person shall wilfully ride upon any footpath or causeway by the side of any road made or set apart for the use or accommodation of foot passengers; or shall wilfully lead or drive any horse, ass, sheep, mule, swine, or cattle or carriage of any description, or any truck or sledge, upon any such footpath or causeway; or shall tether any horse, ass, mule, swine, or cattle, on any highway, so as to suffer or permit the tethered animal to be thereon;. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . F2; every person so offending in any of the cases aforesaid shall for each and every such offence forfeit and pay any sum not exceeding [F3level 2 on the standard scale], over and above the damages occasioned thereby.


As the article says the law is not clear cut.

If I had one of these contraptions (I don't) would I get hauled over at 2 am on a clear footpath proceeding at 8mph?

Mick
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southpaw82
post Mon, 25 May 2020 - 16:10
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What’s not clear cut about it?


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spanner345
post Mon, 25 May 2020 - 16:23
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Did some research some years ago, regarding mot's. If it hasn't got pedals. it needs tax. mot insurance etc. If it has pedals it MAY be exempt.


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The Rookie
post Mon, 25 May 2020 - 17:25
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Where does it say in that, that a nuisance must occur?


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