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NIP from motorway camera
Redtech
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 15:18
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Hi

I've received a NIP for Doing 42 past a 20mph camera on the M5
Stating that it will be a single justice procedure notice

I understand this will be 6 points or a ban ??

If it's 6 points that would take me to 12 and what happens then

I will add this was a particularly stormy night with lashing rain and the motorway was closing up ahead, the first gantry I passed was at 50mph which I duly slowed to, I was then checking my sat nav to ensure re routing was ok, and obviously with all the other flashing lights and lane closing lights flashing away and cones coming across the carriageway pushing traffic to hard shoulder, my periferral visual saw what it thought was another 50 board, it turns out though that on review of my dash cam it was indeed 20mph
However the next gantry I passed was 40mph??

Would this make sense changing from 50 to 20 to 40 at every gantry as well as closing the motorway
I will add that this was at gone midnight and there was no other traffic around so not peak times

I'm not sure how relevant any of this is, and it's not an excuse, it just seems quite confusing to be putting limits up and down at every gantry while also flashing big X's and cones across the carriageway

So what is the likely outcome of this NIP and if it is 6 points am I then going back to court to be discaulified for totting 12 points anyway ??

As with most people I'm sure, my job depends on my license and really just need to know where I stand

Thanks
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post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 15:18
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Jlc
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 15:31
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That excess is in the new Band C sentencing that hit the news earlier this year. (So around 150% relevant weekly earnings, costs of £85 and surcharge of 10% of the fine (min £30))

That means 6 points or a ban of 7-56 days.

It will require court attendance and hopefully they will consider a short ban - the single justice procedure will revert to a normal court hearing.

You have to be careful of what you say to not aggravate. If you do receive 6 points (be prepared for this) then you have the opportunity to submit an exceptional hardship plea to reduce (potentially to none) the 6 months ban. Losing your job in itself is not necessarily grounds for such a plea - the impact on others will carry more weight.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 15:31


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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southpaw82
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 15:36
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The weather conditions are only going to aggravate the offence.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Redtech
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 15:37
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So will I be summoned to court straight away
The NIP says to send back and then I will sent a single justice notice to then submit a plea ??

Or will it just come back as a court summons ??

If I get a disqualification for this offence do I not get the 6 points ??

If I get 6 points do I then have to attend again as I have totted 12 and will be subject to a ban again

Do I need a solicitor ??
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Jlc
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 16:08
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It may well go through the single justice procedure. But they cannot issue a ban (as you cannot attend) and 6 points would need a court to consider any exceptional hardship plea.

You may wish to 'reject' the SJP and ask for a court hearing. (Depends if you want to delay the sentencing or not)

They can issue a ban to avoid totting - but you do not get to choose but can influence the bench...

Need a solicitor? Yes, no, maybe. For a guilty plea not really, but assistance with influencing/EH plea, possibly - some people swear they have saved their licence. But it won't be cheap.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Logician
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 16:26
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QUOTE (Redtech @ Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 16:37) *
If I get a disqualification for this offence do I not get the 6 points ?? If I get 6 points do I then have to attend again as I have totted 12 and will be subject to a ban again Do I need a solicitor ??


If you get a disqualification for the offence, then you do not get points and are not at risk of being a totter. Hence it would be beneficial in this case to be disqualified, however magistrates do have guidance to give points in these circumstances. If you are given points at a full court hearing when you are present, the court will go on to consider the issue of totting immediately.



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Redtech
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 16:35
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Possibly a stroke of luck
But it may be that 3 of the points are out of the 3 years - need to check

If this is the case would they just award the 6 points

What is the normal result of a single justice procedure, is it always points and fine ?? Or do they do bans

If so is it 6 months or generally less for a SJP
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JP1978
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 16:54
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Is this the OP

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/m5_j...ble_speed_limit?

Must admit, never seen it drop from 50 to 20 before - seems quite a large jump down doesn't it?

Is there any guidance on the maximum drop so not to cause panic braking?

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Redtech
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 17:01
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No it's not me, but clearly someone else who found the change from 70 - 50 - 20 - 40 in the space of 4 gantrys confusing
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666
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 17:17
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QUOTE (JP1978 @ Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 17:54) *
Is this the OP

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/m5_j...ble_speed_limit?

Must admit, never seen it drop from 50 to 20 before - seems quite a large jump down doesn't it?

Is there any guidance on the maximum drop so not to cause panic braking?


Away from the moroway, a drop from NSL (60 or 70) to 30 is not uncommon.
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fedup2
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 17:18
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QUOTE (JP1978 @ Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 17:54) *
Is this the OP

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/m5_j...ble_speed_limit?

Must admit, never seen it drop from 50 to 20 before - seems quite a large jump down doesn't it?

Is there any guidance on the maximum drop so not to cause panic braking?



There is never a need to 'panic' brake,just keep your distance.Old school but it works.
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Jlc
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 17:24
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QUOTE (Redtech @ Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 17:35) *
Possibly a stroke of luck
But it may be that 3 of the points are out of the 3 years - need to check

It's the dates of offence that matter.

QUOTE (Redtech @ Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 17:35) *
What is the normal result of a single justice procedure, is it always points and fine ?? Or do they do bans

If so is it 6 months or generally less for a SJP

SJP's can only issue points as you need to be present for a ban.

If they adjourn though that doesn't mean a ban is the outcome - the court can still issue points.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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southpaw82
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 17:43
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 18:24) *
SJP's can only issue points as you need to be present for a ban.

A single justice can issue a disqualification - s 121(5A)(j) of the Magistrates' Courts Act 1980. Under s 16C the court must give the accused the opportunity to make representations in relation to any proposed disqualification and the case will only fall out of the SJP if the accused does want to make such representations. That leaves open the issue of liability for driving whilst disqualified until the notice of disqualification following and SJP hearing is served.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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BaggieBoy
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 17:43
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I thought RADAR based devices, i.e. HADECS2/3, were not type approved for 20 MPH limits?
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Jlc
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 18:02
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QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 18:43) *
I thought RADAR based devices, i.e. HADECS2/3, were not type approved for 20 MPH limits?

HADECS3 is - here.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Redtech
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 18:19
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I will add I'm not disputing this
I've seen the footage on my dash cam, it was set to 20 and I was going faster

So it turns out I only have 3 valid points, so

If I just send of the details off on the NIP, do I get the the SJP back ?

If I plead guilty on this, will I just get the fine and 6 points ??? Or is there still a possibility of a ban ??

Will I have to attend or is it just dealt with by the magistrate ??

Just want to deal with it asap and out it to bed, and I can deal with the points and fine, but as a field based sales/service engineer on the road, the ban would have severe consequences to me and my immediate family

This post has been edited by Redtech: Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 18:21
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Logician
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 18:38
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You are likely to receive a SJP notice, the single justice may decide that your case should be transferred to a full court, or give you points, or consider you should be disqualified in which case s/he must give you the opportunity to make representations about that, and if you wish to do so, the case will be transferred to a full court, as southpaw explains above.

If you do get points you are obviously going to have to be super careful not to get any more, the most common causes being speeding, mobile phone use and red light offences.


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cp8759
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 22:19
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QUOTE (JP1978 @ Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 17:54) *
Is there any guidance on the maximum drop so not to cause panic braking?


No, but I believe the speed limit only comes into force 10 seconds after it has been displayed, which gives you enough time to slow down without having to slam on the brakes
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glasgow_bhoy
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 23:02
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If it were me I'd opt for a court appearance over the SJP, and provide mitigation that the roads were empty (if they were) and (if it is indeed the case) that you were caught off guard seeing a 20mph speed limit on a motorway! Appologise profusely and stress the reasons you need the car and the damage a ban would have to others.
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superSmiffy
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 23:15
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 23:19) *
QUOTE (JP1978 @ Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 17:54) *
Is there any guidance on the maximum drop so not to cause panic braking?


No, but I believe the speed limit only comes into force 10 seconds after it has been displayed, which gives you enough time to slow down without having to slam on the brakes

The delay between speed limit setting and enforcement commencing is 60 seconds NOT 10 seconds.
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