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76 in a 50
lutonmike
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 14:46
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Received a NIP 2 weeks ago and was recommended this forum. Driving for 25 years etc...

Basics without alluding to too much detail:

Major UK A road
Mobile camera unit - clocked 76 in a 50
Sunday morning, just after 9am (I personally had this at before 9)
Stretch of road that reduces from a dual to single (70 down to 50)
Also mobile unit IMO in questionable position on stretch of road

Problems I have:

I am on 6 points
Driving is crucial to my job
Driving is crucial to my life (live far away from ageing parents / school age child who I see fortnightly)

Any advice gratefully received, can PM info if required (if that is a thing on here!!)

Thanks
LM
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post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 14:46
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NewJudge
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 14:54
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Nothing you have said seems to provide any sort of defence. I assume there is signage indicating the new limit (otherwise, a road reducing from dual to single carriageway reduces the NSL from 70 to 60). What do you mean by "mobile unit IMO in questionable position on stretch of road" (not that it's likely to help much).

76 in a 50 is just in the top band of seriousness and, unless the court is in a particularly benevolent mood, the offence attracts six points. The fine will be a week's net income (assuming a guilty plea) as well as a surcharge of 10% of the fine (minimum £30) and £85 costs.

With that in mind you need to prepare an "Exceptional Hardship" (EH) plea. Losing one's job is not usually considered exceptional and the effect that your ban will have on others usually carries more weight. When considering your EH plea you need to be prepared for some close questioning about the hardship you or others will endure. You will be asked if there are alternatives to you driving which will lessen the hardship (e.g. public transport, other people driving you, etc.). You will have plenty of time to consider this as it is unlikely you will be called to court for a number of weeks.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 15:00
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Jlc
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 14:57
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QUOTE (lutonmike @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 15:46) *
Stretch of road that reduces from a dual to single (70 down to 50)
Also mobile unit IMO in questionable position on stretch of road

I presume you were clocked in the 50 section? What do you mean by questionable?

It's possibly a long shot but might be worth checking the relevant traffic order is correct for the limit change.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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lutonmike
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 15:35
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NewJudge - Re: EH
Major earner in household, supporting part time working wife and 1 child - also support for second child who doesn't live with me. Access as well.
Car is company car
I work 200 miles from home, staying away 3/4 days per week
My work when not based at office is then in very remote locations (farms)

JLC - It was a 50MPH. Having examined photo, there is clear fog visible in picture (this probably doesn't help as I should have been driving to the conditions).
Questionable means, I'm saying it was on what I consider to be very close to a bend in the road. I'd heard this wasn't legal?
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Jlc
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 15:38
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QUOTE (lutonmike @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 16:35) *
Questionable means, I'm saying it was on what I consider to be very close to a bend in the road. I'd heard this wasn't legal?

As long as there's clear line of sight just about anything goes. There doesn't appear to be any defence there.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Logician
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 16:37
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QUOTE (lutonmike @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 16:35) *
NewJudge - Re: EH Major earner in household, supporting part time working wife and 1 child - also support for second child who doesn't live with me. Access as well. Car is company car I work 200 miles from home, staying away 3/4 days per week My work when not based at office is then in very remote locations (farms) JLC - It was a 50MPH. Having examined photo, there is clear fog visible in picture (this probably doesn't help as I should have been driving to the conditions). Questionable means, I'm saying it was on what I consider to be very close to a bend in the road. I'd heard this wasn't legal?


As long as they are in a position to measure your speed accurately they can be anywhere. You may have the basis for an EH argument there, but would you definitely lose your job? If you are sometimes office based could you stay in the office for 6 months, sometimes going out with a colleague? If you lose your job how quickly could you get another, could your wife work full time while you do more at home? If the answers are negative and your wife and child are in danger of losing their home, and the second child cannot be supported or visited, you have the makings of a case.



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lutonmike
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 16:46
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Logician - would almost certainly lose my job.
My job is predominantly field based (distance from home to head office is just shy of 200 miles.
Missus works for NHS, virtually minimum wage as a typist. Her wage wouldn’t cover 1/3 of the monthly running costs of the house, even if full time.

What type of preparation do I need to organise for EH?
How is it presented to the judge?
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The Rookie
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 16:47
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QUOTE (lutonmike @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 16:35) *
I'd heard this wasn't legal?

Either what you heard was from an idiot or you misheard...

First off they are witnessing a crime, doing so cannot be either illegal or not legal, same as you standing on a footpath of itself is none of those.

Whether the evidence it produces would satisfy a court is down to the merits of each case but certainly there is nothing that prevents it being on a corner and being used as evidence. No ‘you were parked on a corner’ oh no gosh, case dismissed you are free to go’ would happen!


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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lutonmike
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 16:47
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 16:38) *
QUOTE (lutonmike @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 16:35) *
Questionable means, I'm saying it was on what I consider to be very close to a bend in the road. I'd heard this wasn't legal?

As long as there's clear line of sight just about anything goes. There doesn't appear to be any defence there.


What’s defined as clear line of sight?
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The Rookie
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 16:49
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Can they see you, the measurement device is a laser, it points along a line of sight, if they can see you, they can ping you.

If they can’t see you clearly it wouldn’t get a reading off your car anyway!

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 16:49


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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lutonmike
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 17:04
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Sounds like I better prep my EH and hope the judge has a good day.
Will they take into consideration that my only previous offences in 20+ years have been SP30?
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Jlc
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 17:28
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Previous driving record or how the points were accumulated are not considered.

The EH plea is considered on its own merits. You may wish to consider professional help but many think it’s better saving the money but many have sworn they have saved their license.

Of course, be prepared for the question that if your licence was so critical why did you risk it and speed? It’s slightly annoying as just 1 mph less would result in a 3 point fixed penalty. You’ve managed to get caught at the worst possible speed in terms of the outcome.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 17:28


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Logician
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 18:48
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QUOTE (lutonmike @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 17:46) *
Logician - would almost certainly lose my job. My job is predominantly field based (distance from home to head office is just shy of 200 miles. Missus works for NHS, virtually minimum wage as a typist. Her wage wouldn’t cover 1/3 of the monthly running costs of the house, even if full time. What type of preparation do I need to organise for EH? How is it presented to the judge?


You will probably not be presenting it to a judge, but to a bench of three magistrates, but it could be a Disrict Judge (Magistrates Courts). It is your evidence given by you from the witness box and you can present it any way you like, it can be entirely oral, or you can write it out and read it out or ask the bench to read it. If you are doing that take five copies one for each magistrate, one for the legal advisor and one for the prosecutor. As you have been told, the circumstances of any of the offences which led to the points are not relevant, nor is your driving record, so you should start from the position that you have the points. There will of course be a case for the latest offence and you will be given points and the court will then ask or if not you should say, that you wish to put forward an exceptional hardship case.

I would start by explaining what you do for a living, the importance of being able to drive and the impossibility of doing your job without driving. Obtain a letter from your employer stating that you will lose your job if you cannot drive for six months. Move on to describe your family circumstances, your wife and child at home, the support for a second child. Then briefly describe your financial circumstances, the household budget, the small scope for your wife earning more. The possibility of another job etc. Be prepared for random questions as the magistrates think of them, things like could the child stay with a relative and your wife drive you to the farms, just anything that comes to mind.





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