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OOT declaration form refused - Legal Advice needed, TEC refused OOT
VPMG
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 18:20
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Hi,

I filled in an OOT declaration regarding a parking ticket, last month. However, the information I put on this form was wrong (because I've mistaken the case with another PCN I had, which I also didn't know about (never received any letters from the Council at all, due to V5C address not updated)).

For this reason, TEC has refused my application.
In the letter TEC sent me, they say that I should look for legal advice before contacting them and that I should fill in an N244 form.

Can you please recommend me someone that I can contact to help me to fill in the forms that I need?


Many thanks for your help.
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post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 18:20
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peterguk
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 18:49
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Related to your previous thread also involving TEC?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=120093&hl=

This post has been edited by peterguk: Tue, 15 May 2018 - 18:49


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VPMG
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 18:50
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Yes.
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peterguk
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 18:52
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QUOTE (VPMG @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 19:50) *
Yes.


Add to your original thread - don't start new ones for the same case. A mod. will merge.


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VPMG
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 19:06
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Sorry, the reason why I added a new one is because I thought the other one was very confusing. Now I understood everything and can explain everything much better.

I would just like to know if there's any recommendations to seek for legal advice. Last time, I was suggested BA, which was great help!
At the moment, I can't contact BA and I have 14 days to contact TEC with the forms. 5 days have passed, so I'm starting to get worried...

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Neil B
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 23:12
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QUOTE (VPMG @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 19:20) *
In the letter TEC sent me, they say that I should look for legal advice before contacting them and that I should fill in an N244 form.

Presumably you know that filing N244 costs £100 ?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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hcandersen
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 06:39
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Now I understood everything and can explain everything much better.

That would help.

W only need to know about the PCN which is the subject of the OOT application and refusal. As this relates to procedural matters regarding letters and non-receipt of notices, then do not go back to the Ark with the contravention.

Their letter to TEC opposing your OOT application is laughable because they've mixed up their references to informal and formal notices. They claim you submitted informal representations to the PCN which they rejected by letter dated 26 Sept.

The issue that springs to mind is what was contained in whatever you sent them after being issued with the original PCN? Or is this another mistake on their part? If it exists and if sent in your name, then on what basis did they send a NTO to a different address (and continue to send subsequent notices) if the registered keeper's name was the same as in your challenge. And then not receiving any replies to their notices. At what stage does their brain get involved and put two and two together?

It is not a foregone conclusion that you should apply to challenge TEC's decision because, as stated by NeilB, this would cost you money.

Your OOT submission, your letter to them in Sept. and their reply please.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Wed, 16 May 2018 - 06:40
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Bailiff Advice
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 08:51
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QUOTE (VPMG @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 20:06) *
Sorry, the reason why I added a new one is because I thought the other one was very confusing. Now I understood everything and can explain everything much better.

I would just like to know if there's any recommendations to seek for legal advice. Last time, I was suggested BA, which was great help!
At the moment, I can't contact BA and I have 14 days to contact TEC with the forms. 5 days have passed, so I'm starting to get worried...


I am around and emailed you last evening. You have also been posting on the Consumer Action Group forum as well. As I pointed out on the CAG forum yesterday, you actually have 14 days from the date of service (not the date on the letter) to submit an N244. We will get this sorted out some time today so don't worry.
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hcandersen
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 09:51
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All that activity...

Should bode well for us seeing what's needed then!

OP, it is foolish to embark on a hopeless N244, you'd be better off putting that money towards payment of the penalty.
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VPMG
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 19:37
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Dear all,

Apologises for not replying back to you. I haven't received any notifications on my email.

I phoned TEC today and they told me that I have 14 days to fill in the papers. If I don't do it on time, then on my application it will have to explain why I am late.


Just to clarify:

- I went to London and paid my parking by phone.
- Returned to my car and had a penalty.
- Challenged the penalty, informally, requesting Lambeth to check their online services as I had paid for the parking using an application on my phone.
- Lambeth replied and said that there was nothing on their records. I should then wait for the notice to the owner.


- I checked my receipt (that I paid by phone) and realised that I made a mistake in one letter of my car's plate number. My phone was a Samsung edge, which was broken exactly on the corner where I made the mistake. With the sun and the screen broken, I didn't realise my mistake.


- I've got an enforcement letter in April, requesting aprox. £760. I thought this was about my penalty in London (it wasn't, it was about Bath, which I found out later). I phoned TEC and filled in TE7 and TE9 as requested.
I did say on the forms that the reason why I never got the NTO was because I moved and my V5C wasn't updated.
(When I called the DVLA in 2015, they changed my address for the direct debit, but they never told me that I had to sent the V5C document, so I never did. My driving license is European. This last time, when I called them again, they changed my address for the Direct Debit and also informed me that I had to send the V5C. Now, my V5C is all updated).


- Got a letter from Lambeth objecting my TE7 and TE9 statements.
- Got a letter from TEC rejecting my TE7 and TE9, giving me the option to pay 100£ to review my case and fill in an N224 or to pay 255£ for a hearing at the court.


Unfortunately, I've made a "mistake" filling in my TE7 and TE9, because I was confused with another PCN that I wasn't aware of, plus, I didn't know that I could add every single detail about my case. I thought it was meant to be kept as a brief description.

Lambeth is asking me for 203£ plus fees for the Bailiffs.
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hcandersen
post Thu, 24 May 2018 - 10:18
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OP, we do not want to know about the contravention. At this stage it is not relevant.

Why don't you post your OOT and witness statement?

What does 'I was confused with another PCN' mean?

Did you or did you not submit an OOT in respect of an attached witness statement that included the correct PCN number?
(bearing in mind you had to complete the WS - didn't you?- what the hell did you put in it?)

If not, then TEC's decision is neither here nor there because you have NOT submitted anything in respect of the PCN in question, so there's no 14 days.

We're crying out for clarity. At least try and give the PCN date - references to another PCN as opposed to this PCN lose me, I'm afraid.

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VPMG
post Thu, 24 May 2018 - 22:29
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Hi, I've tried to summarise the events, hopefully this will clarify things for you:

- PCN from London found on my windscreen
- Unformal appeal against that PCN from London
- Unformal appeal rejected letter received, asking me to wait for NTO letter
- After a couple of months, I received an Enforcement letter.
- At that point in time I did not realise that this enforcement letter was related to a PCN from Bath that I was never made aware of (no PCN received, no NTO...).
- I thought that this enforcement letter was related to the PCN from London.
- I filled in a TE7 and TE9 form with the PCN number from London, explaining that I did not receive the NTO letter and asking for the Enforcement to be put on hold (please see attached)
- Because the enforcement letter was not related to that PCN from london, the information (Bailiff agents details and Debt owed) I provided in these forms did not make sense.
- Eventually, my OOT application has been rejected by Lambeth council (see attached letter)

- After receiving help from different forums and speaking to the Bailliff agent, I understood that the enforcement letter was actually related to a PCN from bath.
- At that point in time I understood that I had wrongly filled in the TE7 and TE9 for the PCN from london.
- Regarding the enforcement letter for the PCN from Bath, this has been delt with BA's help (OOT application).
- The last letter I received regarding the PCN from london is a letter from TEC rejecting the OOT request.
- I am now left with the option of filling in a N244 form, or as suggested by BA, write to lambeth for them to cancel the PCN based on the fact that I paid my parking,
- I have a receipt, and that I made a mistake in one digit of my car registration number.

Please, any advice or opinion is very welcomed. Thank you for your help.
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hcandersen
post Fri, 25 May 2018 - 07:20
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I'm still confused.

According to your last post you have not received any enforcement letter regarding the 'London' PCN, so we don't even know when and whether a charge certificate and order for recovery have been issued for this PCN.

Pl, pl, pl just tell us about the PCN in question i.e. 'London.

PCN date, for..
I did...
I received....

Forgeet about Bath, it does not feature as regards the London PCN. And can't you give it another reference e.g. its date.
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Neil B
post Fri, 25 May 2018 - 09:40
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 07:39) *
The issue that springs to mind is what was contained in whatever you sent them after being issued with the original PCN? Or is this another mistake on their part? If it exists and if sent in your name, then on what basis did they send a NTO to a different address (and continue to send subsequent notices) if the registered keeper's name was the same as in your challenge. And then not receiving any replies to their notices. At what stage does their brain get involved and put two and two together?

This appears to be your only possible chance but you haven't responded to the question?

What did you say to Lambeth about your address in your informal challenge and where did they send
their response.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Neil B
post Fri, 25 May 2018 - 09:56
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And
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 25 May 2018 - 08:20) *
According to your last post you have not received any enforcement letter regarding the 'London' PCN,

Have you?
You haven't mentioned which bailiff, how much is being demanded or whether the warrant is on your current address?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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VPMG
post Fri, 25 May 2018 - 10:51
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 25 May 2018 - 10:40) *
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 07:39) *
The issue that springs to mind is what was contained in whatever you sent them after being issued with the original PCN? Or is this another mistake on their part? If it exists and if sent in your name, then on what basis did they send a NTO to a different address (and continue to send subsequent notices) if the registered keeper's name was the same as in your challenge. And then not receiving any replies to their notices. At what stage does their brain get involved and put two and two together?

This appears to be your only possible chance but you haven't responded to the question?

What did you say to Lambeth about your address in your informal challenge and where did they send
their response.



The only thing I have from Lambeth was the PCN on my car. I responded to them, as an informal appeal.
They responded to me, by letter, saying that they were refusing my appeal. Then, I should wait for the NTO.

I never received any further letters, and someone at the court explained me, that after this informal notice, Lambeth requests the reg number's address to the DVLA.
I know that my address was wrong at that time, so I believe all the letters have gone to my previous address.
Which I stated on my TE7 and TE9, that I moved and therefor, never got any letters from London.

QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 25 May 2018 - 10:56) *
And
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 25 May 2018 - 08:20) *
According to your last post you have not received any enforcement letter regarding the 'London' PCN,

Have you?
You haven't mentioned which bailiff, how much is being demanded or whether the warrant is on your current address?



I have never received a letter from London after my informal appeal.

When Lambeth opposed to my OOT, they said there that they have sent enforcement notices (which I never received!). The letter never said how much they were requesting, neither, which Bailiffs they were dealing with.


When TEC informed me (on the 10th of May) that they were rejecting my OOT, Lambeth send me another letter and said: So TEC agreed with us, you will have to pay 203£ + bailiffs fees. It has been signed to Phoenix.
BA phoned them and managed to get them on hold for 30 days while I deal with this.

QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 25 May 2018 - 08:20) *
I'm still confused.

According to your last post you have not received any enforcement letter regarding the 'London' PCN, so we don't even know when and whether a charge certificate and order for recovery have been issued for this PCN.

Pl, pl, pl just tell us about the PCN in question i.e. 'London.

PCN date, for..
I did...
I received....

Forgeet about Bath, it does not feature as regards the London PCN. And can't you give it another reference e.g. its date.


I'm sorry about that.

I haven't received any letter from Lambeth about enforcement or anything. But I know they have sent one! Because when Lambeth opposed to my OOT (16.04.2018), they wrote in one of the paragraphs that Lambeth had already sent enforcement letters and I never responded to them. It says there that I only responded to the informal challenge and then, never responded to any other letters (obviously, because I never received them as I explained on the TE7 and TE9 that they opposed).

PCN date: 09.09.2017
I appealed unformally requesting them to check the online records as I had paid for the parking for the whole morning.
I received a letter from Lambeth saying that there was nothing in their records, so I should now wait for the NTO.
I check my online receipt and realised I made a mistake in one digit of the plate number.

Never ever heard from Lambeth again.
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Neil B
post Fri, 25 May 2018 - 10:56
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QUOTE (VPMG @ Fri, 25 May 2018 - 11:51) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 25 May 2018 - 10:40) *
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 16 May 2018 - 07:39) *
The issue that springs to mind is what was contained in whatever you sent them after being issued with the original PCN? Or is this another mistake on their part? If it exists and if sent in your name, then on what basis did they send a NTO to a different address (and continue to send subsequent notices) if the registered keeper's name was the same as in your challenge. And then not receiving any replies to their notices. At what stage does their brain get involved and put two and two together?

This appears to be your only possible chance but you haven't responded to the question?

What did you say to Lambeth about your address in your informal challenge and where did they send
their response.



I responded to them, as an informal appeal.
They responded to me, by letter,

It's like a stuck needle on a record. I give up.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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hcandersen
post Fri, 25 May 2018 - 10:57
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OP, for the last time from me (life's too short) pl, pl, pl just answer our questions:

WHAT PCN number was in your witness statement. (you keep referring to the OOT as if it's one doc, it's not, it's two: the OOT submission AND the witness statement).

AND what PCN was referred to, BY NUMBER, in your OOT submission, not some vague description but a NUMBER.

And pl just give is the last 3 or 4 numbers of the PCN.

So, my WS referred to PCN *****123, my OOT submission referred to *******, Lambeth's objection referred to ******* and TEC's letter referred to ******.

Do not mention Bath or I'll drown myself...in mine!

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Fri, 25 May 2018 - 11:11
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cp8759
post Fri, 25 May 2018 - 10:59
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Unless you show us all the correspondence, we won't be able to help you.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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VPMG
post Fri, 25 May 2018 - 12:20
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Ok, so I am only gonna talk about the London Lambeth case from now.

LONDON LAMBETH CASE

PCN NUMBER: LJ08212100
PCN NUMBER referred in my unformal appeal: LJ08212100
PCN NUMBER referred in Lambeth unformal appeal rejection: LJ08212100
PCN NUMBER referred in my WS (TE7): LJ08212100
PCN NUMBER referred in my OOT (TE9): LJ08212100
PCN NUMBER referred in Lambeth objection letter: LJ08212100
PCN NUMBER referred in TEC Statutory Declaration rejection letter: LJ08212100
PCN NUMBER referred in Lambeth Statutory Declaration rejection letter: LJ08212100

I have attached all the correspondence in JPEG format, ordered from letter A to I.

A_PCN_LJ08212100_Lambeth_unformal_appeal_rejection-part1.JPG
B_PCN_LJ08212100_Lambeth_unformal_appeal_rejection-part2.JPG
C_PCN_LJ08212100_TE7.JPG
D_PCN_LJ08212100_TE9.JPG
E_PCN_LJ08212100_Notice_of_Objection_from_Lambeth_part_1.JPG
F_PCN_LJ08212100_Notice_of_Objection_from_Lambeth_part_2.JPG
G_PCN_LJ08212100_TEC_Statutory-Declaration_rejection_part1.JPG
H_PCN_LJ08212100_TEC_Statutory-Declaration_rejection_part2.JPG
I_PCN_LJ08212100_Lambeth_Statutory-Declaration_rejection.JPG

The information in the Lambeth objection letter (attachment E and F) is a "joke". The first paragraph does not make any sense with the rest of the letter. I can't believe that based on that TEC have rejected my TE7 and TE9.

This is all the information and correspondence I have on that case. I hope you will be able to advise with this material.


Thank you.

[attachment=55482:A_PCN_LJ...on_part1.JPG][attachment=55483:B_PCN_LJ...on_part2.
JPG][attachment=55484:C_PCN_LJ...2100_TE7.JPG][attachment=55485:D_PCN_LJ...2100_T
E9.JPG][attachment=55486:E_PCN_LJ...h_part_1.JPG]
[attachment=55487:F_PCN_LJ...h_part_2.JPG][attachment=55488:G_PCN_LJ...on_part1.
JPG][attachment=55489:H_PCN_LJ...on_part2.JPG] [attachment=55490:I_PCN_LJ...ejection.JPG]
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