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Incandescent
Posted on: Today, 19:31


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Presumably, like many others, you drive a lease or hire car ? The 1st PCN goes to them as holder of the V5C, then they appeal it as a hire company giving your address, and they then issue a 2nd PCN, having cancelled the first. And, of course, you obeyed your sat-nav like so many do; a recipe for disaster ! The biggest problem with sat-navs is updating their data. My car's last update was 2012, and no more will be issued. SO far, this has only caught me out in Germany of all places, with a new Autobahn junction not on the sat nav.

1st Warning sign
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4741409,-...33;8i6656?hl=en

2nd warning sign
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4743017,-...33;8i6656?hl=en

The restriction signs at Whitworth Street
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4747167,-...33;8i6656?hl=en

So you're going to need a pretty strong argument to refute this lot !!

Based on the lengthy elapsed time since the contravention date and the PCN, if you get any more then it would be worth taking the matter to adjudication on disproportionate penalty. However you will have to risk the full PCN penalty, the discount will have gone by this stage.

The other aspect is the PCN could have been issued out-of-time. They have 28 days to issue a PCN, so assuming the hire/lease company responded promptly to the PCN giving your address, they cancel it, and then have another 28 days to issue to you.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1377706 · Replies: 2 · Views: 10

Incandescent
Posted on: Today, 15:28


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Photos are not a legal requirement, it is your word against the CEO who issued the PCN. Having said that, most councils take them these days, but they will only come into play if you say you weren't there. If it gets to adjudication the adjudicator will ask "so where were you, then ?". You can't bluff your way, I'm afraid, and this forum doesn't support this anyway.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1377640 · Replies: 12 · Views: 159

Incandescent
Posted on: Today, 15:16


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Both PCNs have to be issued 'in time'. Once they have received lease company appeal and cancelled the first PCN, the clock starts again, and they have another 28 days to issue to you. It does look suspicious but you need to find out when the lease company submitted their appeal to the 1st PCN.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1377634 · Replies: 9 · Views: 112

Incandescent
Posted on: Yesterday, 21:59


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Appeals have been won on PCN content errors, like the 28 days to issue a CC is not correct. However no other points are valid, the CCTV signs are just recommendations and motorists have to assume cameras are everywhere in London. You should not need a camera sign before you drive in a lawful manner, and a London Tribunals adjudicator will not give it any weight.

I suspect if you take it to London Tribunals you'll lose, but others may disagree. However make sure when you submit your appeal you claim it is out-of-time despite what we have told you, as they could have been tardy in issuing the PCN to you after the hire company appealed it.

You'd better post-up this 2nd PCN because certainly that looks unlawful. Maybe it's your car taken from another camera, these things do occur. Only other thing that comes to mind is the PCN you already posted is the one sent to the hire company and they've passed it onto you, and you've now received the real one. If so that does look way out of time.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1377434 · Replies: 15 · Views: 364

Incandescent
Posted on: Yesterday, 20:47


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QUOTE (sal1986 @ Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 21:30) *
Is it worth appealing?

First need to see the GSV view of the junction. From their photos, the YBJ looks far longer than the junction itself, so not compliant with legislation. HCA raised this issue recently.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1377408 · Replies: 21 · Views: 288

Incandescent
Posted on: Yesterday, 16:35


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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 17:09) *
"A friend told me that Camden have an app which directs the wardens to Ringo tickets that are about to expire to increase the chances of catching people out who overstay even by a very short time."

Find out more if you can. It does sound like an urban legend though. Also, there is a 10 min grace on these ones.

Urban legend ? Hmm...I think it would be typical of the venal money-grubbers called London Councils to create something like this, even though they are already drawing shedloads of money out of parking penalties. They want ever last cent.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1377323 · Replies: 14 · Views: 462

Incandescent
Posted on: Yesterday, 09:52


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OP, can you please not start another thread. Just update the thread you started and it will be moved up to top and people will see it. YOu need to get the moderators to combine the two posts.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1377156 · Replies: 3 · Views: 93

Incandescent
Posted on: Yesterday, 08:17


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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 08:07) *
@spaceman, this is a matter of public law. The council have obligated themselves to not demand the full penalty other than after a period of 14 days has elapsed after notifying the person submitting the challenge.

They have not done so.

The 'circumstances of the case' are NOT limited to parking regs and there are numerous adj decisions to this effect.

OP, submit reps as suggested.

+1
Why else have a statutory ground of "the penalty exceeded the relevant amount in the circumstances of the case".
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1377124 · Replies: 19 · Views: 226

Incandescent
Posted on: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 - 23:34


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Well, Minerva Road is a cul-de-sac and access is off Fairfield Road. There is no CPZ sign at the entrance to this street off the A307 dual carriageway. HOwever this could be part of a huge CPZ that councils love so much, (they make more money in PCN penalties out of them !!)

If OP now submits an informal challenge, they should tell him in which CPZ it resides and where the entrance signs are. The reps need to say "saw no CPZ signs on approach".

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1377103 · Replies: 17 · Views: 254

Incandescent
Posted on: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 - 23:17


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There can be no doubt from your photos as to the almost complete disappearance of any DYLs where you parked, ( a few feet remaining at each end). Whilst there is the "substantial compliance" argument that the council may employ, I cannot see how any adjudicator can possibly conclude that the yellow lines are substantially compliant.The plain fact is they are not there !! Clearly it was once intended as the entrance to a development that has yet to take place, and the MK Parks department has put in shrubs and plants to make it look nice.

However, it's some weeks, or even months before you might have to go to adjudication. Firstly, you should submit an informal challenge stating that there are no yellow lines where you parked, single or double, therefore the PCN was incorrectly issued and must be cancelled. Post up their reply when you get it, and we can take it forward from there. They will, when they reject this, give you the beguiling offer of the discount again. This is when you have to stand your ground and wait for the Notice to Owner and appeal that, and forego the discount. Only at this point will anybody with any greymatter in their head look at your reps, all the informal reps are dealt with by low grade staff who just issue boggo standard rejection letters.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1377102 · Replies: 13 · Views: 254

Incandescent
Posted on: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 - 23:03


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QUOTE (Helpmeplease11 @ Tue, 24 Apr 2018 - 21:25) *
Just a update for you all.i lost my appeal and I will have to just pay it

What on earth do you mean - "have to just pay it" ? You haven't even appealed yet, all you have submitted is an informal challenge and got the Bum's Rush, like 99% of the others get. However if you don't want to risk the discount on what is a certain win at adjudication, then cough-up now. Councils over the whole of the UK dine out very generously on people folding and paying. It gives them a huge revenue stream to squander on stupid council schemes.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1377099 · Replies: 12 · Views: 292

Incandescent
Posted on: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 - 22:57


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Well, at least you know now what a complete Dog's Breakfast the law is in relation to minor parking and motoring contraventions. The legislation is mind-boggling complex, and that is how the government and councils like it, no doubt ! Just why should penalties in London be double the rest of the UK, for instance ? Why is the bus lane enforcement legislation not common across all of England including London ? Yes, its a total mess, and this forum attempts to keep on top of it and inform people correctly.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1377096 · Replies: 21 · Views: 420

Incandescent
Posted on: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 - 18:04


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They are correct about the 2000 Act. Section 11 gives the statutory grounds for appeals, and there isn't one that covers hire companies like there is with other acts like the TMA 2004. However is it trumped by a later London authorities act ?
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1377002 · Replies: 21 · Views: 420

Incandescent
Posted on: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 - 17:36


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Having looked at the photos, I have to agree with "stamfordman", your intrusion into the other bay is more than de minimis, and an appeal would almost certainly be rejected by an adjudicator who cannot apply discretion. The council have discretion and have decided not to apply it. Yes, it is money-grubbing, but there you are, that is how their minds work, and, of course they keep every last cent of your payment.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1376995 · Replies: 4 · Views: 174

Incandescent
Posted on: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 - 17:28


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QUOTE (sl300 @ Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 20:28) *
With regards to appealing the tow on the grounds of it being excessive and disproportionate to the offence, which of their options should I choose? Is it this?

"the penalty charge or other charge paid to secure the release of the vehicle exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstance of the case."

Thanks

Yes, that is the one.

This is the only statutory ground for appeal that allows what is called a "collateral challenge" to be made, and allows the appeal to cover them not following other, (higher) laws that apply to their actions, in other words the circumstances of the case can affect the final penalty. This is because appeals to the adjudicator can only be made under one or more of the statutory grounds for appeal.

Before the grounds of "procedural impropriety" were introduced in the Traffic Management Act, the above ground was used to cover cases where the authority had acted unlawfully in progressing the case.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1376992 · Replies: 15 · Views: 406

Incandescent
Posted on: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 - 14:18


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QUOTE (DastardlyDick @ Tue, 24 Apr 2018 - 15:10) *
I cannot see an Adjudicator finding in your favour - my advice would be to pay up and be more careful in future.

Me too.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1376936 · Replies: 14 · Views: 250

Incandescent
Posted on: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 20:00


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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 16:34) *
Please double check the address on the V5C, make sure there's no mis-spelling or typos.

+++1

Indeed do you actually have the V5C for the vehicle in your possession now, as I type this ?
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1376739 · Replies: 14 · Views: 288

Incandescent
Posted on: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 19:50


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Submitting an OOT declaration is free, but can be opposed by the council. As they invariably do oppose, (they want to keep the money !!), TEC will reject your submission. At this point you have the option to have your case reviewed by a County Court judge. Papers-only £100, interview with Judge-in-Chambers £255. If you are successful, these charges are not normally reimbursed.

There is a website dedicated to cases such as yours: -

http://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk

A small fee is payable, but worth it to make sure your declaration is correctly made out. If you are totally inexperienced in these matters it might be worth making contact.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1376733 · Replies: 37 · Views: 703

Incandescent
Posted on: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 19:35


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A better example of council money-grubbing from the bad weather would be difficult to find. There is a lot of doubt here so this should surely mean any appeal should go in favour of the appellant.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1376728 · Replies: 7 · Views: 173

Incandescent
Posted on: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 12:30


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As you have the NtO, the discount has gone, so you might as well take them all the way to the adjudicators, as the penalty remains the same.

I would appeal on the faded lines following from lines that were in recently maintained, good condition, that lead you to believe the double-yellow area had been shortened. Faded lines on their own are not sufficient to win an appeal. Adjudicators accept councils cannot maintain all lines in perfect condition. Here, however, it looks as if the lines have been maintained, and the length you are on not, because they no longer apply there. You could show the opposite side of the street as an example where they have been shortened.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1376579 · Replies: 50 · Views: 1,913

Incandescent
Posted on: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 12:18


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OK, OP, you just carry on.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1376571 · Replies: 12 · Views: 336

Incandescent
Posted on: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 12:12


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One thing that needs to go into the guidance is to re-offer the discount if an appeal is made within the discount period. Some councils already do this, but there are some venal and rapacious councils, (Nottingham City Council for instance), that don't.
The current guidance is a joke, still in draft form since 2008, 10 years ago. Councils are absolutely coining it, especially in London where PCN penalties are double the rest of the UK.
  Forum: News / Press Articles · Post Preview: #1376564 · Replies: 4 · Views: 236

Incandescent
Posted on: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 12:06


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Shares up on bad results; the ways of the City of London are wondrous to behold. I suppose the reason is it now looks as if somebody is in charge and knows what he's doing. Until it all goes belly-up of course ! The new CEO is "kitchen-sinking", which is normal when one first takes charge of a bad case.
  Forum: News / Press Articles · Post Preview: #1376562 · Replies: 3 · Views: 189

Incandescent
Posted on: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 09:26


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London councils issue PCNs which have double the penalty to the rest of the UK, so can afford to flood the streets with CEOs to issue PCNs like confetti. Manchester probably doesn't have such ubiquitous coverage so people can park on yellow lines and get away with it, but not all the time, eventually they'll get a ticket. Councils balance revenue from PCNs against costs of enforcement. In London they make huge surpluses. What Manchester earn I don't know but it will be less, I would have thought.

Loading is an exemption, but you'll struggle to convince anyone you needed several hours, you can only take a long as necessary.

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1376516 · Replies: 8 · Views: 204

Incandescent
Posted on: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 07:58


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BBC Business Live today

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-43834513

Shareholders whalloped for £700m rights issue, huge £513m loss, and revenues down 4%

No gloating, please.

(OK, maybe a little)
  Forum: News / Press Articles · Post Preview: #1376495 · Replies: 3 · Views: 189

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