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FightBack Forums _ The Flame Pit _ Filmed using mobile phone by neighbour

Posted by: Flower123 Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 18:37
Post #1509869

Hey everyone this is my first post.
I was parked outside my home with the engine running whilst I was sorting out the google maps on my phone to go somewhere. Once I put the phone its cradle I looked up and noticed a neighbour filming me whilst shaking his head. The footage would clearly show me and my number plate if sent to the police. The footage was taken from inside my neighbours home. Im a new driver so is there anyway I would get 6 points for this? Pls help

Posted by: cp8759 Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 18:55
Post #1509877

In Director of Public Prosecutions v Barreto [2019] EWHC 2044 (Admin) the High Court decided it's only an offence if you're using the phone for the purposes of interactive communication. Using your phone for a non-interactive communication function is not an offence, see https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2019/2044.html

You don't need to prove what you were using your phone for, you don't need to prove anything at all. It would be for the police to adduce positive evidence that you were using your phone for an interactive communication purpose, which I would suggest they can't do based on what you've said.

Posted by: Flower123 Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 19:00
Post #1509879

I read somewhere that even holding a mobile phone that isn't even switched on can be a six point offence? Is this not the case? If the police do send a NIP can i contest this? Thank you for responding

Posted by: southpaw82 Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 19:10
Post #1509880

QUOTE (Flower123 @ Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 20:00) *
I read somewhere that even holding a mobile phone that isn't even switched on can be a six point offence? Is this not the case? If the police do send a NIP can i contest this? Thank you for responding

Do you think he’s lying?

Posted by: Flower123 Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 19:16
Post #1509882

That who's lying? My neighbour?

Posted by: southpaw82 Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 19:19
Post #1509884

QUOTE (Flower123 @ Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 20:16) *
That who's lying? My neighbour?

No but do you?

Coming here for advice and saying “but I read on the internet...” is a waste of time by the way.

Posted by: Flower123 Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 19:23
Post #1509885

Sorry I understand I am just worried about losing my license. So if the police can't prove I was using my phone for interaction purposes am I in the clear?

Posted by: southpaw82 Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 19:30
Post #1509887

QUOTE (Flower123 @ Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 20:23) *
Sorry I understand I am just worried about losing my license. So if the police can't prove I was using my phone for interaction purposes am I in the clear?

That would seem to be the current state of the law, yes.

Posted by: Flower123 Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 19:36
Post #1509889

Ok thank you. Also is the footage my neighbour took of me legal evidence? Is it legal to record someone without their permission?

Posted by: southpaw82 Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 19:47
Post #1509892

QUOTE (Flower123 @ Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 20:36) *
Ok thank you. Also is the footage my neighbour took of me legal evidence? Is it legal to record someone without their permission?

Generally, yes.

Posted by: The Slithy Tove Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 20:29
Post #1509896

QUOTE (Flower123 @ Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 19:37) *
I was parked outside my home with the engine running whilst I was sorting out the google maps on my phone to go somewhere.

I would contend that you were not "driving" at the time, as you were parked up. Therefore no offence would have been committed.

Posted by: Flower123 Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 21:12
Post #1509900

Thanks. Have people been able to use being stationary as a valid defence?

Posted by: stamfordman Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 21:48
Post #1509908

QUOTE (Flower123 @ Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 19:37) *
I was parked outside my home with the engine running



He might have been cross about your engine.

Posted by: Flower123 Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 22:04
Post #1509909

I doubt that I was only sat for a few minutes before I set off. I think he mustve started recording as soon as he heard the engine switch on 😖

Posted by: PASTMYBEST Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 00:08
Post #1509922

QUOTE (Flower123 @ Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 23:04) *
I doubt that I was only sat for a few minutes before I set off. I think he mustve started recording as soon as he heard the engine switch on 😖


Being stationary is no defence not using for an interactive service is

Posted by: Redivi Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 00:25
Post #1509924

Being stationary in traffic is an offence and specifically mentioned in the briefing notes to Parliament
The briefing notes also say that it may be permissible to use the phone if stuck in traffic for a long time that is not going to move

"Driving" isn't absolutely defined in legislation and is considered case-by-case
In my view, a car parked up in neutral with the handbrake on, even with the engine running, shouldn't be regarded as driving within the intention of this particular legislation

Unlike a car in traffic, the decision when to move again is entirely under the control of the driver who, it can be assumed, will first terminate the call
The use of the phone doesn't have any safety implications

Posted by: 666 Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 06:53
Post #1509935

QUOTE (Flower123 @ Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 23:04) *
I doubt that I was only sat for a few minutes before I set off. I think he mustve started recording as soon as he heard the engine switch on 😖

Maybe he was looking to report you for the offence of running the engine while stationary, rather than the mobile phone use. Or perhaps both.

Posted by: mike5100 Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 07:26
Post #1509938

QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 01:25) *
Being stationary in traffic is not an offence and specifically mentioned in the briefing notes to Parliament
The briefing notes also say that it may be permissible to use the phone if stuck in traffic for a long time that is not going to move

"Driving" isn't absolutely defined in legislation and is considered case-by-case
In my view, a car parked up in neutral with the handbrake on, even with the engine running, shouldn't be regarded as driving within the intention of this particular legislation

Unlike a car in traffic, the decision when to move again is entirely under the control of the driver who, it can be assumed, will first terminate the call
The use of the phone doesn't have any safety implications

Yes - from this and other posts pulling over, parking switching the engine off and then taking or making the call seems to be in order. But do others find that people pull over to do this in the stupidest of places with little consideration for other drivers?
Mike

Posted by: Korting Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 08:52
Post #1509960

I understood that that if the engine is running whilst parked, then an offence is committed.

But what if its an electric car?

Posted by: 666 Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 09:19
Post #1509965

QUOTE (Korting @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 09:52) *
I understood that that if the engine is running whilst parked, then an offence is committed.

But what if its an electric car?

In an electric car the motor does not run when stationary.

Posted by: stamfordman Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 09:38
Post #1509973

Cleary the OP should have a polite word with the neighbour otherwise we're all guessing.

Posted by: Redivi Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 09:55
Post #1509981

QUOTE (Korting @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 09:52) *
I understood that that if the engine is running whilst parked, then an offence is committed.


Don't know if this has been tested

Police have been known to issue an FPN when the key was simply in the ignition - which does raise an issue for electric cars

When it was only £100/3 pts it wasn't worth the time and expense to reject the FPN and have a day in court

Posted by: Korting Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 10:13
Post #1509986

If the keys are in the ignition, but the engine is switched off, afaik no offence is committed.

I would test that in court if it was me. What then happens with cars where the key only has to be in proximity, ie there's no ignition key.

Posted by: DastardlyDick Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 10:21
Post #1509989

Stop panicking - wait and see if you do get an NIP from the Police (which I would say is unlikely), then you can contest it on the grounds already mentioned.

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 10:37
Post #1509995

QUOTE (Korting @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 11:13) *
If the keys are in the ignition, but the engine is switched off, afaik no offence is committed.

Well that depends on what you mean by 'switched off', start stop systems switch off the engine but would be no more or less driving than engine running.

Key in accessory position would be different.
'
At the end of the day a court decides whether an accused was 'driving' or not.

Posted by: rd250dx Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 10:38
Post #1509996

Surely the neighbour must know how this could pan out for himself if he was to dob you in to plod.

Posted by: Flower123 Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 10:46
Post #1509998

My neighbour and my father haven't been on the friendliest terms for a while so speaking to him wouldn't be possible. I'll have to wait and see if a NIP comes in the post 😭. Thanks for the advice everyone

Posted by: southpaw82 Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 11:05
Post #1510000

QUOTE (DastardlyDick @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 11:21) *
Stop panicking - wait and see if you do get an NIP from the Police (which I would say is unlikely), then you can contest it on the grounds already mentioned.

Considering no NIP is needed for the mobile phone offence I’d not be holding my breath for one.

Posted by: Redivi Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 11:50
Post #1510011

Would the neighbour have to appear in court as a witness if the OP pleads Not Guilty ?

Posted by: Flower123 Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 12:26
Post #1510019

Would the police not need to send a NIP to the registered keeper? I'm sure they must need to determine the identity of the driver before further enquiry?

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 13:42
Post #1510035

QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 11:50) *
Would the neighbour have to appear in court as a witness if the OP pleads Not Guilty ?

Yes the witness would be needed.

QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 12:26) *
Would the police not need to send a NIP to the registered keeper? I'm sure they must need to determine the identity of the driver before further enquiry?

A NIP doesn’t get the drivers details, an S172 request does. No NIP is required but yes an S172 request would be but there is no 14 day limit on that.

Posted by: Flower123 Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 14:01
Post #1510040

So I have to wait 6 months to know if i'm in the clear? Is there anyway to find out if someone has reported my license plate?

Posted by: southpaw82 Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 14:10
Post #1510047

Other than that we do not have such things as “license plates” in the UK, you could call the police and ask. Whether they would (a) tell you or (b) be able to search by your vehicle registration mark alone is uncertain.

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 14:36
Post #1510061

If you do contact the police, leave it at least 2 weeks, no point rushing in and then the incident being logged later.

Posted by: Flower123 Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 15:18
Post #1510080

Ok I will wait. Does the footage have to be sent in to the police by a certain time or does the amount of time taken to hand it in not matter?

Posted by: TryOut Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 15:35
Post #1510090

QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 16:18) *
Ok I will wait. Does the footage have to be sent in to the police by a certain time or does the amount of time taken to hand it in not matter?

You got into your car, started it up and fiddled with your mobile before putting it in a holder. Then you drove away.
Even if the police got a video of that they are not likely to do anything in the way of a prosecution.
If that wasn't the case and you drove away before mounting your phone in a holder and was still using it then something may be done about it.
If it was as you described I can't see anything coming from it other than your neighbour being offended because his video wasn't the key evidence in the crime of the century.

Posted by: Flower123 Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 15:49
Post #1510095

Ok I would think the police would have to pursue this as it has been sent in by a member of public? If the police do prosecute what are the chances of me being given the 6 point penalty and having my license revoked?

Posted by: southpaw82 Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 15:51
Post #1510098

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 15:36) *
If you do contact the police, leave it at least 2 weeks, no point rushing in and then the incident being logged later.


Why wait two weeks?

QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 16:49) *
Ok I would think the police would have to pursue this as it has been sent in by a member of public? If the police do prosecute what are the chances of me being given the 6 point penalty and having my license revoked?

The police don’t have to pursue it at all. If you are convicted then the 6 points is very likely - if you get 6 points your licence will be revoked. From what you have said you don’t appear to be guilty of the mobile phone offence, however.

Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 16:22
Post #1510105

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 15:51) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 15:36) *
If you do contact the police, leave it at least 2 weeks, no point rushing in and then the incident being logged later.


Why wait two weeks?

Arbitrary amount of time for the neighbour to report it and the police to log it such that if they are going to log it it’s likely to be on the system by then, otherwise an enquiry before it’s logged risks getting a false negative. (No nothing to do with NIPs or 14 days).

Posted by: Flower123 Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 16:22
Post #1510106

Ok which offence would I be convicted for if not the mobile offence? And how many points does it carry?

Posted by: southpaw82 Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:00
Post #1510113

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:22) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 15:51) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 15:36) *
If you do contact the police, leave it at least 2 weeks, no point rushing in and then the incident being logged later.


Why wait two weeks?

Arbitrary amount of time for the neighbour to report it and the police to log it such that if they are going to log it it’s likely to be on the system by then, otherwise an enquiry before it’s logged risks getting a false negative. (No nothing to do with NIPs or 14 days).

How serendipitous.

QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:22) *
Ok which offence would I be convicted for if not the mobile offence? And how many points does it carry?

I’m not going to list every possible offence that could possibly apply. Just wait and see if the police bother to do anything - you’ve currently no idea what, if anything, your neighbour has done.

Posted by: Flower123 Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:53
Post #1510121

Serendipitous Confectionary

Posted by: 666 Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 18:23
Post #1510131

QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:22) *
Ok which offence would I be convicted for if not the mobile offence? And how many points does it carry?

Not being in control seems very unlikely.

Running engine while stationary is non-endorsable As I recall, but others will confirm.

Posted by: southpaw82 Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 18:50
Post #1510137

QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 19:23) *
QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:22) *
Ok which offence would I be convicted for if not the mobile offence? And how many points does it carry?

Not being in control seems very unlikely.

Running engine while stationary is non-endorsable As I recall, but others will confirm.

Yep.

Posted by: DancingDad Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 20:40
Post #1510165

Flowers, you are panicking about nothing here.
From your description (assuming it is accurate) the worst any video would show is you sitting in a stationary, parked car setting your mobile before cradling it and then driving off.
Even if the neighbour sends the video to the police, doubt anything would come of it, possibly a warning letter but doubt even that, Old Bill have better things to do then chase down "offences" when the supporting evidence doesn't show an offence.

Your best way to calm your nerves as a new driver, is to put this behind, deal with it if anything comes but forget it till it does (it wont).
Then refresh your memory on the highway code, abide by it and have nothing to worry on.

Posted by: TryOut Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 08:58
Post #1510203

QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 16:49) *
Ok I would think the police would have to pursue this as it has been sent in by a member of public? If the police do prosecute what are the chances of me being given the 6 point penalty and having my license revoked?

No. The police don’t have to prosecute. As has been said more than once, your description will cause a police viewer to shrug his shoulders and type NFA. No Further Action.

Maybe you should stop worrying and post up anything you do receive, but that eventuality is unlikely.

Posted by: Flower123 Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 09:02
Post #1510205

Ok well hopefully i won't hear anything back. Thanks for the advice

Posted by: nigelbb Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 09:40
Post #1510214

QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 19:23) *
QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:22) *
Ok which offence would I be convicted for if not the mobile offence? And how many points does it carry?

Not being in control seems very unlikely.

Running engine while stationary is non-endorsable As I recall, but others will confirm.

Isn't the offence of running the engine while stationary actually refusing to switch off the engine when instructed by a person in authority? That wouldn't apply in the OP's case.

Posted by: DancingDad Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 10:21
Post #1510225

QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 10:40) *
QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 19:23) *
QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:22) *
Ok which offence would I be convicted for if not the mobile offence? And how many points does it carry?

Not being in control seems very unlikely.

Running engine while stationary is non-endorsable As I recall, but others will confirm.

Isn't the offence of running the engine while stationary actually refusing to switch off the engine when instructed by a person in authority? That wouldn't apply in the OP's case.

I'm not 100% how many but some councils have clean air legislation in place that allows them to serve an FPN/PCN on people sitting with engines ticking over.
Aimed more at things like Taxis waiting in ranks, school runs where mums (or dads) sit with engine ticking over while waiting for their dearly beloved etc.
In this case I cannot see it applying unless deemed too long.
IE, Switched on, set phone, cradled, drove away is all in the act of preparing to drive.
Some you see, get in car, start it, make a phone call, check texts, check twitface etc.... can be a long time before they actually drive off.
Cannot see police being interested and I think council have to have an occifer there to serve whatever.
Could be wrong.
If anything comes from it, got to judge against OP's personal knowledge whether to fight or not, worst case a fine/penalty, no points

Posted by: southpaw82 Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 11:41
Post #1510259

QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 10:40) *
QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 19:23) *
QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:22) *
Ok which offence would I be convicted for if not the mobile offence? And how many points does it carry?

Not being in control seems very unlikely.

Running engine while stationary is non-endorsable As I recall, but others will confirm.

Isn't the offence of running the engine while stationary actually refusing to switch off the engine when instructed by a person in authority? That wouldn't apply in the OP's case.

No. Reg 98 of the C&U Regs

QUOTE
Save as provided in paragraph (2), the driver of a vehicle shall, when the vehicle is stationary, stop the action of any machinery attached to or forming part of the vehicle so far as may be necessary for the prevention of noise.

Posted by: nigelbb Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 05:07
Post #1510391

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 11:21) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sat, 24 Aug 2019 - 10:40) *
QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 19:23) *
QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 17:22) *
Ok which offence would I be convicted for if not the mobile offence? And how many points does it carry?

Not being in control seems very unlikely.

Running engine while stationary is non-endorsable As I recall, but others will confirm.

Isn't the offence of running the engine while stationary actually refusing to switch off the engine when instructed by a person in authority? That wouldn't apply in the OP's case.

I'm not 100% how many but some councils have clean air legislation in place that allows them to serve an FPN/PCN on people sitting with engines ticking over.
Aimed more at things like Taxis waiting in ranks, school runs where mums (or dads) sit with engine ticking over while waiting for their dearly beloved etc.
In this case I cannot see it applying unless deemed too long.
IE, Switched on, set phone, cradled, drove away is all in the act of preparing to drive.
Some you see, get in car, start it, make a phone call, check texts, check twitface etc.... can be a long time before they actually drive off.
Cannot see police being interested and I think council have to have an occifer there to serve whatever.
Could be wrong.
If anything comes from it, got to judge against OP's personal knowledge whether to fight or not, worst case a fine/penalty, no points

Some councils have £20 FPNs & they can only be issued after the driver has been requested to switch off the engine. The offence is not actually having the engine running but not complying with the request to switch it off.

Posted by: DancingDad Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 07:28
Post #1510393

QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 06:07) *
...........Some councils have £20 FPNs & they can only be issued after the driver has been requested to switch off the engine. The offence is not actually having the engine running but not complying with the request to switch it off.


AFAIK, the offence is unnecessary idling and it doesn't need a request.
But would need to dig out the council TROs that enable to check exact.
According to this, around 30 councils at the time of writing though it doesn't seem many enforced.
Penalties between £20 to £80 touted
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-6589621/Clean-Air-Strategy-vows-crack-drivers-leave-car-engines-idling.html

Posted by: nigelbb Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 09:04
Post #1510403

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 08:28) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 06:07) *
...........Some councils have £20 FPNs & they can only be issued after the driver has been requested to switch off the engine. The offence is not actually having the engine running but not complying with the request to switch it off.


AFAIK, the offence is unnecessary idling and it doesn't need a request.
But would need to dig out the council TROs that enable to check exact.
According to this, around 30 councils at the time of writing though it doesn't seem many enforced.
Penalties between £20 to £80 touted
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-6589621/Clean-Air-Strategy-vows-crack-drivers-leave-car-engines-idling.html

In Scotland at least it seems that you have to be warned to switch off before the offence is committed.

"The Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) (Fixed Penalty) (Scotland) Regulations 2003 enable local authority Authorised Persons to request vehicle users to switch off engines when parked and to issue Fixed Penalty Notices to those who refuse to co-operate."

https://www.gov.scot/publications/local-authority-powers-require-drivers-switch-engines-parked-guidance-issued/pages/4/

BTW IAfter Southpaw's reference to Section 98 of the Construction and Use Regulations I took a look & it is all to do with noise not pollution & could be a difficult offence to prove. It's also a defence if you are stopped in traffic or if you have the engine running while you peer under the bonnet & scratch your head.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/98/made


"Save as provided in paragraph (2), the driver of a vehicle shall, when the vehicle is stationary, stop the action of any machinery attached to or forming part of the vehicle so far as may be necessary for the prevention of noise."

Posted by: DancingDad Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 09:27
Post #1510406

Equivalent act in England
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/1808/contents/made

S12 states similar to Scotland
"Stopping of engine when vehicle stationary
12.—(1) An authorised person who has reasonable cause to believe that the driver of a vehicle that is stationary on a road is committing a stationary idling offence may, upon production of evidence of his authorisation, require him to stop the running of the engine of that vehicle.
(2) A person who fails to comply with a requirement under paragraph (1) shall be guilty of an offence and be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale. "

13 doesn't require that the driver be asked to switch off.....
"Issue of fixed penalty notice: stationary idling offence
13. An authorised person who considers that a stationary idling offence has been committed may, in accordance with Part 7, issue a fixed penalty notice to the driver of the vehicle. "
It does seem to be £20 FPN for idling offences.
£60 if the vehicle fails an emissions test.

Posted by: nigelbb Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 09:42
Post #1510409

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 10:27) *
Equivalent act in England
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/1808/contents/made

S12 states similar to Scotland
"Stopping of engine when vehicle stationary
12.—(1) An authorised person who has reasonable cause to believe that the driver of a vehicle that is stationary on a road is committing a stationary idling offence may, upon production of evidence of his authorisation, require him to stop the running of the engine of that vehicle.
(2) A person who fails to comply with a requirement under paragraph (1) shall be guilty of an offence and be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale. "

13 doesn't require that the driver be asked to switch off.....
"Issue of fixed penalty notice: stationary idling offence
13. An authorised person who considers that a stationary idling offence has been committed may, in accordance with Part 7, issue a fixed penalty notice to the driver of the vehicle. "
It does seem to be £20 FPN for idling offences.
£60 if the vehicle fails an emissions test.

It looks like you could have a double whammy. Issued with a FPN for a stationary idling offence then another FPN when they don't comply if required to stop the running of the engine.

Posted by: stamfordman Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 10:20
Post #1510414

This is almost certainly just a neighbour playing games. I mentioned the engine idling because it is an issue - quite often I have told off drivers leaving engines on outside our house as the fumes can drift in under the front door and through open windows, especially diesel fumes.

Two years ago there was a bloke with his engine on who was unresponsive when I knocked on his window and he seemed unconscious - had to call police.

Posted by: DancingDad Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 10:29
Post #1510417

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 11:20) *
......….Two years ago there was a bloke with his engine on who was unresponsive when I knocked on his window and he seemed unconscious - had to call police.


Did they issue an FPN ? rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Starworshipper12 Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 17:51
Post #1510487

A couple of weeks back a car was parked outside my house with the engine running. I could hear it and after 5 minutes went outside only to find there was no-one in it. Fairly new Mercedes A class, and of course diesel...

I left to run errands, and after nearly an hour returned to find the car still parked and running. Didn’t really know what to do except leave a blunt note on the windscreen.

Posted by: mickR Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 19:39
Post #1510500

QUOTE (Flower123 @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 18:53) *
Serendipitous Confectionary


That would be going round the neighbours and shoving his camera up his supercaifragalisticxpalidosious

Posted by: Flower123 Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 19:51
Post #1510505

😂😂 if only

Posted by: Redivi Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 20:38
Post #1510513

Do you have a child that could be sat in the car whenever you're setting the maps before driving off ?

Let the neighbour build up a collection and, in the event of a prosecution, suggest that it's not the phone use that he tries to record




Posted by: Flower123 Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 20:51
Post #1510515

Unfortunately not that would have been good payback though. Either way i'd probably still end up being the one who suffers the worst consequences knowing the state of our system

Posted by: southpaw82 Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 20:53
Post #1510516

QUOTE (Redivi @ Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 21:38) *
Do you have a child that could be sat in the car whenever you're setting the maps before driving off ?

Let the neighbour build up a collection and, in the event of a prosecution, suggest that it's not the phone use that he tries to record

rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Charlie1010 Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 13:45
Post #1510616

You could film him filming you.
Of course out of the car. Using the car roof to steady your hand.
That could freak him out.

Posted by: speedfighter23 Thu, 29 Aug 2019 - 23:40
Post #1511450

Wow OP you have a terrible neighbour!

He should be prosecuted for wasting police time not you!
I am generally scared now of crazy people with cameras, so yes do be careful OP, but from what you have described and the expert advice on many people here, you have nothing to be afraid of, just avoid your neighbour!


If i saw someone doing that to me, i would have gotten out of the car and challenged him. I think many prosecutions like these work because the person being charged is too scared to go to court; i think in many cases if it actually went to court the witness would be afraid to go and the prosecution would collapse last minute unless it was something really serious like hitting a pedestrian while driving or causing injury to someone in another car through reckless driving.

Can't see the police even taking action with yours.

Regarding idling, well if there is a heat wave and its too hot for windows open and I am waiting in my car, then for sure I will stay with the engine on and the ac on to stay cool; luckily in the UK that is a few times a year at best.

Try staying in a car with the engine off in Greece! No chance, in that case people would care less about the environment and just want to stay cool.

Posted by: 666 Fri, 30 Aug 2019 - 06:34
Post #1511457

QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Fri, 30 Aug 2019 - 00:40) *
Wow OP you have a terrible neighbour!

He should be prosecuted for wasting police time not you!

That seems unlikely, since so far there is nothing to suggest he has contacted the police except the OP's imagination.

Posted by: The Slithy Tove Sat, 31 Aug 2019 - 08:41
Post #1511691

QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Fri, 30 Aug 2019 - 00:40) *
Regarding idling, well if there is a heat wave and its too hot for windows open and I am waiting in my car, then for sure I will stay with the engine on and the ac on to stay cool; luckily in the UK that is a few times a year at best.

Though far more likely here is it's freezing cold and you want the heating on.

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