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Bus lane fine on Bank Holiday, Bus lane fine on Bank Holiday - twice on the same lane!
Purple15
post Thu, 2 May 2019 - 13:08
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Hi everyone,

I have just received two bus lane fines, a minute apart on the same bus lane on Barking Road, E6. I had assumed that bus lanes were okay to drive in on Easter Monday as this counted as a Sunday in my eyes. It seems as I was wrong. Is there any way I can appeal the fines, in relation to them being on a Bank Holiday, and being issued twice on the same bus lane, a minute apart?

Thanks in advance!
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post Thu, 2 May 2019 - 13:08
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cp8759
post Thu, 1 Aug 2019 - 12:54
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Send them the draft below, together with a copy of this http://bit.ly/2ZeRfVN

---------

Dear Sir or Madam,

I contest liability on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur. I refer you to the decision in Mohammad Shah Alam v London Borough of Newham (2180143104, 30 June 2018) where the tribunal ruled as follows:

"Essentially, two different camera operators have caught the Appellant drive through the pedestrian zone when he ought not. That entry into the pedestrian zone is, in my view, the contravention.

In my judgment, the imposition of four additional penalties was excessive and unlawful. The most simple example from which I can draw is a bus lane. If a person chooses to drive in a bus lane when prohibited, the entry into the bus lane is the prohibited act, one cannot impose PCNs simply because different operators caught the driver in different locations along the bus lane.

If I return to the core principle of ne bis in idem, the imposition of multiple civil penalties is not, in my judgment, acceptable.

It follows that I will allow the appeal in respect of PN16858015, PN16858026, PN16858037, PN16858048.

The appeal in respect of the initial contravention PN16857985 is refused.
"

Due to the above, the second PCN must be cancelled.

In its informal representations response, you stated that two PCNs were issued because the vehicle was captured by different cameras along different sections of Barking Rroad, you seem to think it is acceptable to issue multiple PCNs in such circumstances. As has been made clear by the tribunal, this is not the correct position in law. The council is under a duty to apply the law as it is, not the law as the council would like it to be. The council's failure to apply the law correctly amounts to a failure to consider, in consequence of which the first PCN must also be cancelled.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Purple15
post Mon, 14 Oct 2019 - 10:58
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Hi,

I responded to the last rejection letters received using the draft provided by cp8759. I also added that I was unable to view the alleged contraventions as Newham website was down.

Newham Council have responded by sending me two more rejection letters, along with CDs of the footage. They have taken the fines back down to £65 each as I had said it was unfair to double the fines during a period in which the footage was unavailable.

Here is my appeal:
https://ibb.co/dt4NRM2
https://ibb.co/Bz1wpm2


And the letter received from Newham Council (2 identical letters with different PCNs):
https://ibb.co/F4PsZvx
https://ibb.co/pZbxWYG

Please advise on what to do next. Should I pay one fine as being in the bus lane on a bank holiday was a genuine mistake but clearly the council wont see it like that, or continue to contest both?
Presumably I send the same appeal letter, without the paragraph on providing evidence?

Many thanks.
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cp8759
post Mon, 14 Oct 2019 - 21:32
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The council has not shown any real consideration of your representation, that in itself could win the case for you. There must be another page of the rejection letter, I know it might look like "standard" text but it's important that you show us.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Purple15
post Sun, 20 Oct 2019 - 10:11
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https://ibb.co/c2HdGdF
https://ibb.co/GHGVYZ4

Please see above links for the final page of the letter and the appeal form they have provided.

Thanks
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cp8759
post Sun, 20 Oct 2019 - 13:16
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Lol @ Newham; Purple15 you've won.

Paragraph 5 of Schedule 1 to the London Local Authorities Act 1996 (see page 6 here http://bit.ly/2BogLi4) says:

Where any representations are made under paragraph 2 above but the enforcing authority do not
accept that a ground has been established, the notice served under sub-paragraph (10) of the said
paragraph 2 (in this Schedule referred to as “the notice of rejection”) must—

(a) state that a charge certificate may be served under paragraph 8 below unless before the
end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the notice of rejection—

(i) the penalty charge is paid; or
(ii) the person on whom the notice is served appeals to a traffic adjudicator against
the penalty charge; and

(b) describe in general terms the form and manner in which such an appeal must be made;
and may contain such other information as the enforcing authority consider appropriate.


Therefore the Notice of Rejection must, by law, state that if you neither pay nor appeal the council may serve a charge certificate increasing the penalty by 50%. Nothing on the Notice of Rejection conveys this information, the possibility of a charge certificate is not mentioned and in fact the Notice does not give you any deadline at all to pay or appeal, it gives no deadlines apart from the non-statutory extended discount period. This is prejudicial and as close to a sure win as you could hope for.

For now register the appeal on the London tribunals website using the statutory ground that the alleged contravention did not occur, in the reasons box just write

"Notice of Rejection does not comply with statutory requirement re: advising of charge certificate & 28 day deadline to pay or appeal - detailed submissions to follow".

I suspect that once Newham receives the Notice of Appeal, the outcome will be DNC.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Purple15
post Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 08:48
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Hi there,

I think the letter stated that information on this page (the 2nd link in my reply above):

https://ibb.co/pZbxWYG

it says the discounted payment will be accepted within 14 days and gives instructions on how to appeal. Perhaps this is not the same as what you are quoting?

Thanks
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cp8759
post Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 10:46
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QUOTE (Purple15 @ Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 09:48) *
Hi there,

I think the letter stated that information on this page (the 2nd link in my reply above):

https://ibb.co/pZbxWYG

it says the discounted payment will be accepted within 14 days and gives instructions on how to appeal. Perhaps this is not the same as what you are quoting?

Thanks

Where does it say you must pay or appeal before the end of the 28 day period starting with the date of service of the notice of rejection?

Where does it say that the council may serve a charge certificate?

Where does it say how much the charge certificate increases the penalty?

I re-read the letter several times as it's rare for such an almighty cock-up, but I could not find this information anywhere. However if you think it's there and I've missed it (I'm not infallible), please let me know what paragraph I should re-read.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Neil B
post Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 10:56
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 11:46) *
Where does it say you must pay or appeal before the end of the 28 day period starting with the date of service of the notice of rejection?

Where does it say that the council may serve a charge certificate?

Where does it say how much the charge certificate increases the penalty?

Appeal period is quoted but not payment period or amount.

CC not mentioned at all.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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cp8759
post Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 17:35
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 11:56) *
Appeal period is quoted but not payment period or amount.

You're quite right of course, though it fails to then mention that the tribunal has a power to allow a late appeal.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Purple15
post Tue, 22 Oct 2019 - 10:30
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In the 5th paragraph, it reads 'The discounted payment of £65 will be accepted if paid before the end of the period of 14 days...' - is this not the payment period?

Also, paragraph 7 (To Appeal against our decision) 'You have 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice of rejection to do this.'

Later in the 8th paragraph, it says '..if the adjudicator rejects your appeal, you will be required to pay the amount of £130 before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of their decision'

Agree there is no mention of a 'charge certificate'. Could it be possible that this has been mentioned in one of the previous letters, or does that not matter? Just a reminder that these PCNs were both at £130 each until I mentioned in the last appeal that the newham website was down and I couldn't view the footage. They then reduced back to £65.

In light of the above, shall I continue with appealing (as stated by cp8759) but remove the bit about the 28 days:-

Notice of Rejection does not comply with statutory requirement re: advising of charge certificate & 28 day deadline to pay or appeal - detailed submissions to follow".

Is this enough?


Thanks
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Neil B
post Tue, 22 Oct 2019 - 22:34
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QUOTE (Purple15 @ Tue, 22 Oct 2019 - 11:30) *
Notice of Rejection does not comply with statutory requirement re: advising of charge certificate & 28 day deadline to pay or appeal - detailed submissions to follow".


'The Notice of Rejection fails to convey the full amount of the penalty and the period in
which it may be paid.
It further fails to convey that if neither payment nor appeal are made a Charge Certificate may
be issued, increasing the amount due.'

QUOTE (Purple15 @ Tue, 22 Oct 2019 - 11:30) *
In the 5th paragraph, it reads 'The discounted payment of £65 will be accepted if paid before the end of the period of 14 days...' - is this not the payment period?
No. What happens after 14 days?

Also, paragraph 7 (To Appeal against our decision) 'You have 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice of rejection to do this.'
We've already noted that.

Later in the 8th paragraph, it says '..if the adjudicator rejects your appeal, you will be required to pay the amount of £130 before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of their decision'
What has something in the future got to do with your current position?



--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Neil B
post Tue, 22 Oct 2019 - 22:53
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"Rejection of representations against enforcement notice

5 Where any representations are made under paragraph 2 above but the council concerned do not accept that a ground has been established, the notice served under sub-paragraph (10) of the said paragraph 2 (in this Schedule referred to as “the notice of rejection”) must

(a)state that a charge certificate may be served under paragraph 8 below unless before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the notice of rejection—
(i)the penalty charge is paid; or
(ii)the person on whom the notice is served appeals to a traffic adjudicator against the penalty charge;"


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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cp8759
post Wed, 23 Oct 2019 - 17:27
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The Notice of Rejection fails to convey the full amount of the penalty and the period in
which it must be paid if no appeal is made.
It further fails to convey that if neither payment nor appeal are made a Charge Certificate may
be issued, increasing the amount due.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 - 17:27


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Purple15
post Thu, 24 Oct 2019 - 16:03
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Thank-you. I've appealed both PCNs online and will let you know how I get on.

Appreciate the help, thanks.
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cp8759
post Thu, 24 Oct 2019 - 18:41
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The council will respond to the tribunal either by not contesting (so you win automatically), or by providing an evidence pack. If the case is contested, come back here and show us the case summary from the council's evidence pack.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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