NIP - Speeding, Threads merged |
NIP - Speeding, Threads merged |
Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 21:54
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 18 Aug 2018 Member No.: 99,455 |
Hello there new here and like most of us stupid myself to speed
Ive had my liesnce 22 years and been clean bar one thing 1999 which was wiped off by 2003 i stupidly speeeded up on sunday past to go out of a 30 road on the a7 scotland Borders road towards edinburgh was caught bye a police van camera got my notice which i sent back admited it was me speed was 44 in a 30 what am i looking at thanks I seen the laws saying band b 4 to 6 points 75 to 100 of wages which i find scary Just Wondering what i would get thanks first offence speeding Sorry for the way i type .. |
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Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 21:54
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 11:00
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#21
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,214 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
When was the OP prosecuted?
-------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 12:07
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 18 Aug 2018 Member No.: 99,455 |
on the 12 of August i got my letter On the 15 i was away came back 16 it was here i had to change company from old insureance esure as mines ran out on the 17 friday at 12 pm i didnot know what i would get although what people said i got so i didnot put anything on as all i had was the Nip at that time until friday just passed
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 12:21
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,723 Joined: 3 Apr 2006 From: North Hampshire Member No.: 5,183 |
Continuation of : http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=122261
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 12:45
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
Andy's point is that you haven't been prosecuted yet, the police have only notified you they intend to prosecute. Sometimes insurance policies do require you tell them about any pending prosecutions or similar wording.
Although if that is the full policy wording rather than a "key facts" it would be worth calling them anyway. When a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty is issued then the issuing force legally obliged not to bring proceedings under RTOA 1988. QUOTE 78 General restriction on proceedings.E+W+S (1)Proceedings shall not be brought against any person for the offence to which a fixed penalty notice relates until the end of the suspended enforcement period. (2)Proceedings shall not be brought against any person for the offence to which a fixed penalty notice relates if the fixed penalty is paid in accordance with this Part of this Act before the end of the suspended enforcement period. The Scottish government's interpretation of the RTOA on the ECJ website is that if you accept a CoFP then "no prosecution will be bought against you", albeit government advice isn't always brilliant and it isn't repeated in the E&W advice. QUOTE Are all road traffic offences prosecuted in the criminal courts? The police have powers to deal with certain types of road traffic offences through the use of non-court disposals such as fixed penalty notices. The police will generally report certain types of traffic offences to the prosecutor who will consider if they are to be prosecuted in the criminal courts. Where the offence is not serious (e.g. it may not involve injury to someone or any damage to property) the prosecutor may decide to offer you a conditional offer which if accepted and the penalty is paid, no prosecution will be brought against you. The prosecutor may also offer diversion from prosecution courses in respect of certain road traffice offences related to careless driving. https://e-justice.europa.eu/content_rights_...amp;idSubpage=5 Whether a CoFP is a method of prosecution, or an agreement not to prosecute if you comply with the conditions, or debateable. However, I strongly suspect your insurance company intends the former, so you would certainly need to clarify with them. |
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 13:03
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
When was the OP prosecuted? He wasn’t, but one interpretation is, as I said that it starts with the NIP. I’m sure an insurance company would love to use it that way. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 13:33
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
How can something saying they are intending to prosecute start with the NIP. You cannot intend to do something if you have already started doing it.
It would be notice of commencement of prosecution or similar |
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 13:43
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
How can something saying they are intending to prosecute start with the NIP. Eh? -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 13:56
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
At NIP stage they don't know who the driver is, and they are by definition "intending" to prosecute, it is a future action. No-one with access to a dictionary could believe that prosecution begins when a NIP is received.
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 14:08
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 18 Aug 2018 Member No.: 99,455 |
ok done
This post has been edited by dazz22: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 16:07 |
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 15:03
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
Remove the reference and registration numbers from that picture
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 19:26
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
At NIP stage they don't know who the driver is, and they are by definition "intending" to prosecute, it is a future action. No-one with access to a dictionary could believe that prosecution begins when a NIP is received. But if the recipient knows they were driving that’s rather acedemic isn’t it. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 19:29
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
At NIP stage they don't know who the driver is, and they are by definition "intending" to prosecute, it is a future action. No-one with access to a dictionary could believe that prosecution begins when a NIP is received. But if the recipient knows they were driving that’s rather acedemic isn’t it. An intended prosecution isn’t the same as a prosecution. Following receipt of an NIP the driver could be prosecuted, be offered a CoFP or a course, or no further action might be taken. A prosecution hasn’t been commenced until a written charge is issued or an information laid. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 04:47
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
I’m referring to the original insurance question SP, that’s more open ended than the legal one. You’ll note that I started with ‘there could be an argument’, we know insurers will use anything to try and weedle out!
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 08:50
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
I'm with Southpaw's interpretation :
The document makes a distinction between prosecutions and fixed penalties As the NIP is the precursor to both outcomes, by definition it cannot be one of them |
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Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 11:10
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
• Any prosecutions or motoring convictions that you, or any named drivers, are aware of There could be an argument that the prosecution process started with the Notice of Intent to prosecute........ No there wouldn't, and it is unhelpful to keep repeating this incorrect "argument". Prosecution has a distinct meaning in law, which is the point at which legal proceedings are bought. The insurance company cannot use a word that has a specific meaning and then later say they actually meant their own definition of the word which they didn't tell you but you should have guessed by taking the word to be as disadvantageous as possible to the policy holder. Unfair terms in consumer contracts just for starters. If that was teir intention they could have just asked for "pending prosecutions" instead. This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 11:14 |
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Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 12:23
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
• Any prosecutions or motoring convictions that you, or any named drivers, are aware of There could be an argument that the prosecution process started with the Notice of Intent to prosecute........ No there wouldn't, and it is unhelpful to keep repeating this incorrect "argument". Prosecution has a distinct meaning in law, which is the point at which legal proceedings are bought. The insurance company cannot use a word that has a specific meaning and then later say they actually meant their own definition of the word which they didn't tell you but you should have guessed by taking the word to be as disadvantageous as possible to the policy holder. Unfair terms in consumer contracts just for starters. If that was teir intention they could have just asked for "pending prosecutions" instead. +1, if it ever became an issue I'm sure the Financial Ombudsman Service would also agree. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 07:46
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#37
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 18 Aug 2018 Member No.: 99,455 |
6. Keeping your Policy up to date
Your Insurer may be entitled to refuse the cover described in this Policy unless you answered all questions truthfully to the best of your knowledge, when you applied for, amended or renewed this insurance. This includes questions about any other person covered by this insurance. Your schedule and Statement of Insurance show the answers you’ve provided. You must let us know if any of the details are incorrect as soon as possible after receiving your documents. At renewal, you must tell us if any of the information has changed, including any claims (whether your fault or not), convictions, endorsements, disqualifications and fixed penalties for you or any named drivers. You will need to tell us the DVLA or DVANI offence code if one applies. The Primary Policyholder is responsible for keeping the details on this Policy up to date. This includes information about all Vehicle Policyholders and named drivers. Tell us if there are changes to the status of a driving licence of anyone named on your Policy. This includes if they have passed their driving test or had their licence revoked. Have you had any driving related convictions, endorsements, penalties, disqualifications or bans in the past five years? We won’t be able to offer you a quote online if you or one of the other drivers on your policy have had more than five driving related convictions in the last five years. This includes any prosecutions they may have pending. We may ask your permission to carry out a DVLA licence check on you and any named drivers on your policy. Again it does not state clear to me 100 per cent to tell them that im getting 3 points ( quoute The amended part could act mean that i do have to tell them ) If thats the case then i may best have to .. And with what i read there proper pending means im sure i have to say . erifying your details Unfortunately, it doesn't look like we're able to make this change on your policy. If you'd like to discuss your needs further, please give us a call on 0333 321 9676 and one of our agents will see if they can help. By clicking continue you will cancel your adjustment and ifi have just tried to change it see what happens and thats what i got .. so i did try This post has been edited by dazz22: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 07:56 |
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Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 08:56
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#38
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
Having a "pending" prosecution is like being "a little bit" pregnant... If the insurer had meant to ask whether the proposer had received any tickets or NIPs that had not yet matured into "prosecutions", then this was a poor way of doing so and (considering how the vast bulk of the questions clearly related to convictions) might on that basis be considered unclear and unfair by the Financial Ombudsman. But, having included the term "pending" the insurer could, at least initially, take a different view and decide to cancel the policy on the basis of non-disclosure, which could land the OP in a world of trouble for any insurance policies in the future. The OP will have to make a decision about how much risk to bear, unfortunately.
By the way, by my reading the requirement to "let us know if any of the details are incorrect as soon as possible after receiving your documents" relates to errors in the documents, rather than to a continuous obligation to update the information after application, amendment or renewal, so those three events are the only points at which the obligation arises to notify the insurer of any "driving related convictions, endorsements, penalties, disqualifications or bans". --Churchmouse |
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