PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

NIP - Speeding, Threads merged
dazz22
post Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 21:54
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 18 Aug 2018
Member No.: 99,455



Hello there new here and like most of us stupid myself to speed

Ive had my liesnce 22 years and been clean bar one thing 1999 which was wiped off by 2003 i stupidly speeeded up on sunday past to go out of a 30 road on the a7 scotland


Borders road towards edinburgh was caught bye a police van camera got my notice which i sent back admited it was me speed was 44 in a 30 what am i looking at thanks

I seen the laws saying band b 4 to 6 points 75 to 100 of wages which i find scary Just Wondering what i would get thanks first offence speeding

Sorry for the way i type ..
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V  < 1 2  
Start new topic
Replies (20 - 37)
Advertisement
post Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 21:54
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
andy_foster
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 11:00
Post #21


Member
Group Icon

Group: Life Member
Posts: 24,214
Joined: 9 Sep 2004
From: Reading
Member No.: 1,624



When was the OP prosecuted?


--------------------
Andy

Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dazz22
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 12:07
Post #22


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 18 Aug 2018
Member No.: 99,455



on the 12 of August i got my letter On the 15 i was away came back 16 it was here i had to change company from old insureance esure as mines ran out on the 17 friday at 12 pm i didnot know what i would get although what people said i got so i didnot put anything on as all i had was the Nip at that time until friday just passed
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BaggieBoy
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 12:21
Post #23


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,723
Joined: 3 Apr 2006
From: North Hampshire
Member No.: 5,183



Continuation of : http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=122261
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
notmeatloaf
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 12:45
Post #24


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,306
Joined: 4 Mar 2017
Member No.: 90,659



Andy's point is that you haven't been prosecuted yet, the police have only notified you they intend to prosecute. Sometimes insurance policies do require you tell them about any pending prosecutions or similar wording.

Although if that is the full policy wording rather than a "key facts" it would be worth calling them anyway. When a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty is issued then the issuing force legally obliged not to bring proceedings under RTOA 1988.

QUOTE
78 General restriction on proceedings.E+W+S
(1)Proceedings shall not be brought against any person for the offence to which a fixed penalty notice relates until the end of the suspended enforcement period.
(2)Proceedings shall not be brought against any person for the offence to which a fixed penalty notice relates if the fixed penalty is paid in accordance with this Part of this Act before the end of the suspended enforcement period.


The Scottish government's interpretation of the RTOA on the ECJ website is that if you accept a CoFP then "no prosecution will be bought against you", albeit government advice isn't always brilliant and it isn't repeated in the E&W advice.

QUOTE
Are all road traffic offences prosecuted in the criminal courts?
The police have powers to deal with certain types of road traffic offences through the use of non-court disposals such as fixed penalty notices. The police will generally report certain types of traffic offences to the prosecutor who will consider if they are to be prosecuted in the criminal courts. Where the offence is not serious (e.g. it may not involve injury to someone or any damage to property) the prosecutor may decide to offer you a conditional offer which if accepted and the penalty is paid, no prosecution will be brought against you. The prosecutor may also offer diversion from prosecution courses in respect of certain road traffice offences related to careless driving.


https://e-justice.europa.eu/content_rights_...amp;idSubpage=5

Whether a CoFP is a method of prosecution, or an agreement not to prosecute if you comply with the conditions, or debateable. However, I strongly suspect your insurance company intends the former, so you would certainly need to clarify with them.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 13:03
Post #25


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 12:00) *
When was the OP prosecuted?

He wasn’t, but one interpretation is, as I said that it starts with the NIP. I’m sure an insurance company would love to use it that way.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
notmeatloaf
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 13:33
Post #26


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,306
Joined: 4 Mar 2017
Member No.: 90,659



How can something saying they are intending to prosecute start with the NIP. You cannot intend to do something if you have already started doing it.

It would be notice of commencement of prosecution or similar
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 13:43
Post #27


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 14:33) *
How can something saying they are intending to prosecute start with the NIP.

Eh?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
notmeatloaf
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 13:56
Post #28


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,306
Joined: 4 Mar 2017
Member No.: 90,659



At NIP stage they don't know who the driver is, and they are by definition "intending" to prosecute, it is a future action. No-one with access to a dictionary could believe that prosecution begins when a NIP is received.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dazz22
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 14:08
Post #29


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 18 Aug 2018
Member No.: 99,455



ok done

This post has been edited by dazz22: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 16:07
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 15:03
Post #30


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,126
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



Remove the reference and registration numbers from that picture
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 19:26
Post #31


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 14:56) *
At NIP stage they don't know who the driver is, and they are by definition "intending" to prosecute, it is a future action. No-one with access to a dictionary could believe that prosecution begins when a NIP is received.

But if the recipient knows they were driving that’s rather acedemic isn’t it.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 19:29
Post #32


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 20:26) *
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 14:56) *
At NIP stage they don't know who the driver is, and they are by definition "intending" to prosecute, it is a future action. No-one with access to a dictionary could believe that prosecution begins when a NIP is received.

But if the recipient knows they were driving that’s rather acedemic isn’t it.

An intended prosecution isn’t the same as a prosecution. Following receipt of an NIP the driver could be prosecuted, be offered a CoFP or a course, or no further action might be taken. A prosecution hasn’t been commenced until a written charge is issued or an information laid.


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 04:47
Post #33


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



I’m referring to the original insurance question SP, that’s more open ended than the legal one. You’ll note that I started with ‘there could be an argument’, we know insurers will use anything to try and weedle out!


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 08:50
Post #34


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,126
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



I'm with Southpaw's interpretation :

The document makes a distinction between prosecutions and fixed penalties

As the NIP is the precursor to both outcomes, by definition it cannot be one of them

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
notmeatloaf
post Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 11:10
Post #35


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,306
Joined: 4 Mar 2017
Member No.: 90,659



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 11:52) *
QUOTE (dazz22 @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 10:14) *
• Any prosecutions or motoring convictions that you, or any named drivers, are aware of

There could be an argument that the prosecution process started with the Notice of Intent to prosecute........

No there wouldn't, and it is unhelpful to keep repeating this incorrect "argument".

Prosecution has a distinct meaning in law, which is the point at which legal proceedings are bought. The insurance company cannot use a word that has a specific meaning and then later say they actually meant their own definition of the word which they didn't tell you but you should have guessed by taking the word to be as disadvantageous as possible to the policy holder.

Unfair terms in consumer contracts just for starters.

If that was teir intention they could have just asked for "pending prosecutions" instead.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 11:14
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 12:23
Post #36


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 12:10) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 11:52) *
QUOTE (dazz22 @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 10:14) *
• Any prosecutions or motoring convictions that you, or any named drivers, are aware of

There could be an argument that the prosecution process started with the Notice of Intent to prosecute........

No there wouldn't, and it is unhelpful to keep repeating this incorrect "argument".

Prosecution has a distinct meaning in law, which is the point at which legal proceedings are bought. The insurance company cannot use a word that has a specific meaning and then later say they actually meant their own definition of the word which they didn't tell you but you should have guessed by taking the word to be as disadvantageous as possible to the policy holder.

Unfair terms in consumer contracts just for starters.

If that was teir intention they could have just asked for "pending prosecutions" instead.

+1, if it ever became an issue I'm sure the Financial Ombudsman Service would also agree.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dazz22
post Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 07:46
Post #37


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 18 Aug 2018
Member No.: 99,455



6. Keeping your Policy up to date
Your Insurer may be entitled to refuse the cover described in this Policy unless you answered
all questions truthfully to the best of your knowledge, when you applied for, amended or renewed
this insurance. This includes questions about any other person covered by this insurance.
Your schedule and Statement of Insurance show the answers you’ve provided. You must let us
know if any of the details are incorrect as soon as possible after receiving your documents.
At renewal, you must tell us if any of the information has changed, including any claims
(whether your fault or not), convictions, endorsements, disqualifications and fixed penalties for
you or any named drivers. You will need to tell us the DVLA or DVANI offence code if one applies.
The Primary Policyholder is responsible for keeping the details on this Policy up to date.
This includes information about all Vehicle Policyholders and named drivers. Tell us if there are
changes to the status of a driving licence of anyone named on your Policy. This includes if
they have passed their driving test or had their licence revoked.



Have you had any driving related convictions, endorsements, penalties, disqualifications or bans in the past five years?
We won’t be able to offer you a quote online if you or one of the other drivers on your policy have had more than five driving related convictions in the last five years. This includes any prosecutions they may have pending. We may ask your permission to carry out a DVLA licence check on you and any named drivers on your policy.


Again it does not state clear to me 100 per cent to tell them that im getting 3 points ( quoute The amended part could act mean that i do have to tell them )

If thats the case then i may best have to ..

And with what i read there proper pending means im sure i have to say .




erifying your details

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like we're able to make this change on your policy. If you'd like to discuss your needs further, please give us a call on 0333 321 9676 and one of our agents will see if they can help.
By clicking continue you will cancel your adjustment


and ifi have just tried to change it see what happens and thats what i got .. so i did try

This post has been edited by dazz22: Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 07:56
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Churchmouse
post Tue, 28 Aug 2018 - 08:56
Post #38


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,356
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
From: Landan
Member No.: 20,731



Having a "pending" prosecution is like being "a little bit" pregnant... If the insurer had meant to ask whether the proposer had received any tickets or NIPs that had not yet matured into "prosecutions", then this was a poor way of doing so and (considering how the vast bulk of the questions clearly related to convictions) might on that basis be considered unclear and unfair by the Financial Ombudsman. But, having included the term "pending" the insurer could, at least initially, take a different view and decide to cancel the policy on the basis of non-disclosure, which could land the OP in a world of trouble for any insurance policies in the future. The OP will have to make a decision about how much risk to bear, unfortunately.

By the way, by my reading the requirement to "let us know if any of the details are incorrect as soon as possible after receiving your documents" relates to errors in the documents, rather than to a continuous obligation to update the information after application, amendment or renewal, so those three events are the only points at which the obligation arises to notify the insurer of any "driving related convictions, endorsements, penalties, disqualifications or bans".

--Churchmouse
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V  < 1 2
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 06:00
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here