Rainham - Havering Parking Penalty Charge Notice |
Rainham - Havering Parking Penalty Charge Notice |
Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 21:29
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 28 Mar 2018 Member No.: 97,290 |
Hello,
Bit of a weird situation and want to know what grounds I have to appeal. So my friend moved to Rainham on New Zealand Way road, and I went to visit him and parked opposite of his house overnight with 2 wheels on the pavement, did not block the access/disability ramp off the pavement and did not fully obstruct the pedestrian space on the pavement and there are no lines on the road or parking signs up anywhere. Please see the photo of the place where I parked (I parked literally to the left of where that SUV is in this photo, I have a normal size car, BMW 1 series). I leave my friend's place and get home. 2 days later one of my friend's neighbours hands my friend a penalty charge notice that he supposedly found on the ground where I was parked. (I have no idea how he knew who to give the ticket to? Stalked us maybe and saw my number plate?). This seems to have been in a normal PCN sticky pouch but it never got stuck to my car and there was never anything on my car when I returned to it and left to get back to where I live (in Colchester!). The PCN pouch looks pristine like it never got stuck anyway. My friend sent me photos of the ticket and the PCN pouch. See attachments: Bastards are trying to charge me £110!! My question is what are my grounds for appeal here? If it weren't for my friends' neighbour I would've never seen this ticket or known about it. Hell, if I were just parked there and had no friends in the area, again, would've never seen this ticket. Advice? This post has been edited by iFlip92: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 21:33 |
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Thu, 22 Aug 2019 - 21:29
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Sun, 8 Sep 2019 - 20:18
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#41
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Member Group: Members Posts: 21,018 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
No, it can only be sent after 28 days have elapsed since the original alleged contravention date. After 14 days from service of the PCN, the discount option lapses.
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Mon, 9 Sep 2019 - 07:25
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#42
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
Having read this thread I concur with hca's thoughts that an appeal will be difficult.
The Havering (Parking Places)(Map Based) Consolidation Order 2018 specifically allows footway parking only in bays that are marked out. We may quibble about a Resolution but we know some adjudicators have accepted the terms of a TRO for footway parking so there is a definite risk with suggesting footway parking is allowed throughout New Zealand Way. However PMB's point on the signage being inadequate is strong because the Order denotes a "sign on the carriageway" without real reference to the blue footway parking signs. Indeed, one might take the view that each bay must have a blue sign. The Council's photos show the PCN on the vehicle and that IMO will be enough to persuade an adjudicator of service. Mick |
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Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 09:57
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#43
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
The Council's photos show the PCN on the vehicle and that IMO will be enough to persuade an adjudicator of service. I'm not sure I agree, regulation 9A says the PCN needs to be fixed to the vehicle, something which can easily fall off is not "fixed", as per Gbenga Ogunyemi v London Borough of Barnet (2190288340, 17 August 2019) which indeed is a case you found. And let's be honest, the CEO really has no excuse for not using the adhesive strips, that's just laziness pure and simple. Given the angle the PCN was placed at, it is quite clear it could have easily fallen off. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 10:08
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#44
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
I understand the "affixed" issue since I put the case in the sticky thread.
My concern is that placing a PCN under the windscreen wiper has always been enough. Mick |
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Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 15:59
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#45
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
An interesting "call my bluff" from Edward Houghton to Havering (my bold):-
2190249269 I adjourned this case for the following reason:- Having heard the Appellant in person I entirely accept his evidence that his vehicle had broken down. He pushed it off the carriageway in the dark and as a result of the worn state of the bay markings did not realise that approximately a quarter of his vehicle was outside them. Having given the matter some thought I am unable to go so far as to say that the principle of de minimis applies here; and the Council is correct in that the legislation contains no exemption for broken down vehicles. Nevertheless the combination of the circumstances clearly amounts to very strong mitigation and I am therefore adjourning this case in the hope that the Council will consider it appropriate to exercise its discretion. If it is not prepared to do so it should produce a copy of the Council resolution under s15 (4) Greater London Council (General Powers ) Act 1974 showing the extent of the footway parking exemptions applicable in Ashton Rd in order to demonstrate that the bay markings correctly show the exempted area. No further evidence or communication has been received from the Council. In the circumstances I am unable to be satisfied that the vehicle was not parked within an exempted area and the Appeal is therefore allowed. ---------------------------- Mick |
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Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 16:35
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#46
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Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 28 Mar 2018 Member No.: 97,290 |
I'm still waiting for a reply to my appeal. I'll come back with an update once I get one.
This post has been edited by iFlip92: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 16:26 |
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Sat, 5 Oct 2019 - 12:52
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#47
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Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 28 Mar 2018 Member No.: 97,290 |
I received a reply. Please advise.
In the last 2 paragraphs, they say it was fixed to the vehicle, they say that they are satisfied that the PCN was attached to the vehicle and issued correctly, even though I have provided plenty of evidence otherwise. On the back it says something about waiting for the Notice to Owner. Should I wait for that and appeal again? I'm thinking I should just pay at this point unless someone has a better idea? This post has been edited by iFlip92: Sat, 5 Oct 2019 - 13:01 |
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Sat, 5 Oct 2019 - 16:57
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#48
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Show us the exact wording that you submitted to the council, I have a feeling there's a failure to consider.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sat, 5 Oct 2019 - 17:37
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#49
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Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 28 Mar 2018 Member No.: 97,290 |
Show us the exact wording that you submitted to the council, I have a feeling there's a failure to consider. I wish I could, they didn't send me a copy of what I wrote and I can't access it online either. I didn't even get a confirmation when I sent my appeal apart from the page right after I sent it.... Can I request that they send me a copy of what I said to them somehow? This post has been edited by iFlip92: Sat, 5 Oct 2019 - 17:37 |
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Sat, 5 Oct 2019 - 19:16
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#50
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Ideally you should have kept a copy but it doesn't matter. Try and re-write what you said as you best recall it and post it on here.
This post has been edited by cp8759: Sat, 5 Oct 2019 - 19:16 -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 6 Oct 2019 - 13:43
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#51
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Member Group: Members Posts: 57 Joined: 28 Mar 2018 Member No.: 97,290 |
I got tired of this terrible system so I just paid the £55. Just not worth my time any more...Sorry guys. If it was a private parking charge I would've be more keen to pursue and if I would've kept what I wrote in the appeal I would've pursued further. Out of curiosity, what would have been the next steps if there was a "failure to consider" (the appeal) ? Which it likely was. As I mentioned that they failed to affix the parking notice according to Regulation 9 as per the case quoted earlier in this thread and they didn't seem to address that in the letter. I should've waited for the NTO as well before appealing....
This post has been edited by iFlip92: Sun, 6 Oct 2019 - 13:54 |
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